Taking the water's bonding from a gas pipe?

[DomB]

Hi all,

I need to get the bonding sorted on a house I'm working on. The gas bonding is OK but the water bonding is looking to be a real pain.

Would it be acceptable to sort out the gas bonding then just link a cold-water pipe to one of the gas pipes?

Thanks very much

 

[scotsparky]

where is the watern incommer? remmember bond has to be within 600mm of incomming or as near as possible. Its a bit of a get out if the pipe goes into a wall and you can only access it in the roof space.

 

[Des 56]

have a read of 544.1.2
Then take into account the service positions,remember that a cable bonding both services needs to be unbroken

 

[malcolmsanford]

There is nothing stopping you running a 10mm^ bonding conductor from the main MET to Gas pipe and then onto the water pipe. You will though have to ensure the continuity of the condutor and therefore you should not cut the cable it should be continous.

It is better practice to run 2 conductors, also easier to terminate as you can use a compression crimp for each termintation.

 

[malcolmsanford]

where is the watern incommer? remmember bond has to be within 600mm of incomming or as near as possible. Its a bit of a get out if the pipe goes into a wall and you can only access it in the roof space.

Isn't the word Practicable regarding reg 544.1.2 a wonderful get out of jail card

 

[scotsparky]

probbably is Malcolm but knew the get out was there.

 

[Des 56]

Isn't the word Practicable regarding reg 544.1.2 a wonderful get out of jail card

and its hard to pronounce, even when sober

 

[malcolmsanford]

probbably is Malcolm but knew the get out was there.

I have no doubt that you didn't was just saying wasn't it a wonderful get out of jail reg,

 

[egginyourface]

the regs are there as a guide. if u want you can just link it from the gas bonding,,,may b using a compression crimp but personally dont like them.

in you situation i would cut the cable before it goes to gas pipe,fit an eath block terminal an enclosure with a label stating what its for, then from there link to the other pipe.

would only do this if there was absoloutley no way of running a new earth wire to water

 

[scotsparky]

Egg be carefull. Yes the regs are Non statutary however in the electricity at work regulations they say if you follow BS7671 then you will comply to also to the electricity at work Act H&S ect.

the main bond has to be a continuous unbroken link. Its ok to link gas and water with the same cable but it has to be continuous. Putting an earth block in and then seperate links is like supplying 2 main earth terminals and will cause confusion later and as a spark of 20 years there no way i would do it.

 

[egginyourface]

i agree,

the way i suggested was a bit of a bodge but if that was the only option then thats what i would do

 

[DomB]

Thanks all.

I can't really do a continuos conductor between the gas and the water bonding, in fact I'm having trouble routing a conductor to where the water comes in at all - what I was thinking of doing was to use the gas pipe as the conductor itself, i.e. bond the gas by the gas-meter and then further down the gas pipework, when it gets near the water, link the two systems with an earthing conductor (Hmm..now I don't like the sound of it myself, I think I may be starting to answer my own question...)

544.1.2 - I'm looking very hard at that word practicable...does it mean if it's gonna mess up their new kitchen's tile work then don't bother?!

 

[DomB]

Soz - ignore this reply, I thought my previous one hadn't made it up there

 

[DomB]

stoppress! The main water inlet pipe is plastic as it comes out the floor! Only the main tap and then the pipework as it goes onwards is metal..

Does this mean I don't need to bond the water at all!?

 

[Des 56]

Try this​

If the incoming service pipes are made of plastic, they
do not need to be main bonded.
If the incoming pipes are made of plastic, but the
pipes within the electrical installation are made of
metal, the main bonding must be carried out. The
bonding being applied on the customer side of any
meter, main stopcock or insulating insert and of
course to the metal pipes of the installation.
The connections of the bonding wired to the pipes
has to be made with a proper clamp to BS 951
complete with the label “SAFETY ELECTRICAL
CONNECTION - DO NOT REMOVE.”
If the incoming services are made of plastic and
the pipework within the building is of plastic then
no main bonding is required. If some of the
services are of metal and some are of plastic, then​

those that are of metal must be main bonded.

 

[malcolmsanford]

The OSG pg 29 section 4.4 you do not have to bond the Plastic Incoming pipe which I agree with. If though the rest of the installation within the premises is copper then I would bond as you could not guarantee that the metal installation is not producing an earth potential via the gas pipe ie at a boiler connection.

The good news is the OSG just mentions bonding it on the Customer Side of the meter, stopcock etc, so I would bond it, wherever you could.

 

[DomB]

Ahh, Soz, I shoulda looked that up in the OSG myself. Thanks. Hm, I guess the water inside the plastic pipe could still conduct along the length of that pipe to the remaining copper installation too?

So I'm back to square one - sussing out how to route the bonding conductor. I've found a route outside the house now, albeit quite a long one. I suppose I have to put the cable in conduit then - is that right?

Thanks very much for everyone's replies btw!

D

 

[IQ Electrical]

Ahh, Soz, I shoulda looked that up in the OSG myself. Thanks. Hm, I guess the water inside the plastic pipe could still conduct along the length of that pipe to the remaining copper installation too?

So I'm back to square one - sussing out how to route the bonding conductor. I've found a route outside the house now, albeit quite a long one. I suppose I have to put the cable in conduit then - is that right?

Thanks very much for everyone's replies btw!

D

Forget the conductivity of water, it's a myth, it's a pretty good insulator-take a look at this: View attachment EarthingPlasticPipes.pdf

A relic from the 16th edition but some interesting stuff, maybe an update will crawl into the new Guidance Note 8 that we've been promised for the last 2 years!

 

[ukpablo]

why would u have to put it in conduit? just clip direct

 

[SimpleSimon]

Thanks all.

I can't really do a continuos conductor between the gas and the water bonding, in fact I'm having trouble routing a conductor to where the water comes in at all - what I was thinking of doing was to use the gas pipe as the conductor itself, i.e. bond the gas by the gas-meter and then further down the gas pipework, when it gets near the water, link the two systems with an earthing conductor (Hmm..now I don't like the sound of it myself, I think I may be starting to answer my own question...)

544.1.2 - I'm looking very hard at that word practicable...does it mean if it's gonna mess up their new kitchen's tile work then don't bother?!

Hold up.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but are you suggesting to use the gas pipe as a conductor to provide a comtinous path? Is this allowed?

 

[IQ Electrical]

Hold up.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but are you suggesting to use the gas pipe as a conductor to provide a comtinous path? Is this allowed?

No it's not, you can with structural steel though, not that that helps the OP!

 

[SimpleSimon]

Didn't think so. Apologies to the OP if I'm reading this wrong as I'm the first to suggest it.

 

[DomB]

Pls don't apologise - that is exactly what I was suggesting (ashamedly)!

As Malcolmsanford mentioned earlier (& if I understand it right) I guess now that I know the incoming water pipe is plastic it wouldn't be unreasonable to just bond the remaining copper water system at the earliest 'practicable' place on the customer side.

I know after the water inpipe the first branch of copper heads off under a concrete floor and over to the boiler which is relatively easy to access and bond. I'll bond the water system there and measure the resistance accross to the next copper branch near the inpipe just to confirm continuity. Tis a much less disruptive job doing that and I'm thinking it's effective.

Thanks everyone for all your help, it's sorted what was becoming a mushroom cloud of a job!

Happy New Year to one and all!

 

[telectrix]

the old REME solution comes to mind here. " if it moves, salute it, if not, bond it "

 

[SimpleSimon]

Pls don't apologise - that is exactly what I was suggesting (ashamedly)!

As Malcolmsanford mentioned earlier (& if I understand it right) I guess now that I know the incoming water pipe is plastic it wouldn't be unreasonable to just bond the remaining copper water system at the earliest 'practicable' place on the customer side.

I know after the water inpipe the first branch of copper heads off under a concrete floor and over to the boiler which is relatively easy to access and bond. I'll bond the water system there and measure the resistance accross to the next copper branch near the inpipe just to confirm continuity. Tis a much less disruptive job doing that and I'm thinking it's effective.

Thanks everyone for all your help, it's sorted what was becoming a mushroom cloud of a job!

Happy New Year to one and all!

Any chance you can do it before it branches as that is preferable.