Telephone Line Question

[E.E.I]

Not sure if this is in the correct section

Hopefully someone can help me with this one

So recently rewired a house and included was some additional telephone points. All cables installed correctly away from mains cables

The telephone points are wired in cat 5e

There are two slave points and one master point, the master point uses the BT nte5 outlet.

The slave units are wired individually not in series

All points ring out when a phone is plugged in. The trouble I'm having is once the broadband router is plugged in via the ADSL filter, if you then pick up the phone and listen to the dial tone you can hear what sounds like the old Internet dial up tone, it is faint though.

The other trouble I'm having is once these slave units are connected, the broadband speed reduces by 1Mb, this is a major problem because the property only gets 2.5Mb Max.

With the two slave units disconnected the broadband hits the 2.5 Mb and with the phone plugged into the master point (also via the ADSL filter) there is no dial up tone.

I have connect each slave circuit individually to see if it was a fault on one of them, but I get the same situation.

any one ever had this situation before?

Sorry it's a long post

 

[shaun1]

Are you using filters on the phones? Each phone should also be connected via an ADSL filter to the slave sockets. This should isolate the phones from the broadband and vice versa

 

[E.E.I]

Hi Shaun

No I didn't use a filter on the phone tbh I didn't know that.

I will give it a try and let you know what happens

Will this also help with the drop in download speed?

 

[telectrix]

as said, each phone needs a ADSL filter, and what terminals have you used on the sockets. you only want to connect 2 and 5. don't connect 3 as we used to do.

 

[123]

The filters should solve the problem, need one for each point.

 

[shaun1]

Hi,

Yes it should do. THe filter basically splits the voice frequencys to the phone and higher(I think) frequencys to the broadband. But you need one at every point to make sure they are kept separate.

 

[E.E.I]

Thanks for the info

 

[UNG]

Instead of using plug in ADSL filters which can be a bit hit and miss and very prone to failing, get yourself a vDSL filter that fits onto the NTE5 which gives you the option of running filtered and unfiltered extensions for phone and broadband

 

[Wilko]

Hi - interesting topic is the ADSL speeds. I got one from 2 and a bit MHz up to 10MHz now by some rewiring and a BT fix. The rewiring centred on putting a dedicated splitter at the BT test socket to separate the voice from the data and then running data as a new cat5 cable direct to the house modem. No more filters needed on the phone side (or for the modem). The phone side should also be tidied up and simplified as much as possible. Only 2 wires as mentioned etc. The more that is connected the slower it will run. On the "old internet dial up tone ..." I am guessing, but it is either generated locally (is there a burglar alarm dialler trying to call out?) or you are hearing crosstalk from the cable of someone else dialling out. This is not good. There is a silent line test that can be helpful to determine if you've got a poor physical connection. This is another BT thing I got onto via their community help website. Just my humble opinion, but don't call their customer service folks as tech stuff is way out of their comfort zone. This will take you to the forum and I found a lot of help there. Cheers, David.
https://community.bt.com/t5/ADSL-Copper-Broadband-Speed/bd-p/BBinHome

 

[UNG]

Hi - interesting topic is the ADSL speeds. I got one from 2 and a bit MHz up to 10MHz now by some rewiring and a BT fix. The rewiring centred on putting a dedicated splitter at the BT test socket to separate the voice from the data and then running data as a new cat5 cable direct to the house modem. No more filters needed on the phone side (or for the modem). The phone side should also be tidied up and simplified as much as possible. Only 2 wires as mentioned etc. The more that is connected the slower it will run. On the "old internet dial up tone ..." I am guessing, but it is either generated locally (is there a burglar alarm dialler trying to call out?) or you are hearing crosstalk from the cable of someone else dialling out. This is not good. There is a silent line test that can be helpful to determine if you've got a poor physical connection. This is another BT thing I got onto via their community help website. Just my humble opinion, but don't call their customer service folks as tech stuff is way out of their comfort zone. This will take you to the forum and I found a lot of help there. Cheers, David.
https://community.bt.com/t5/ADSL-Copper-Broadband-Speed/bd-p/BBinHome

Some observations from your post

I assume your speeds are Mbps not MHz

The dedicated splitter you mention is a vDSL filter I mentioned in the previous post

The internet dial tone has already been identified as a lack of ADSL filters

The silent line test you mention is possible using an engineers butt phone or by dialing 17070 from any connected phone I would suggest using a wired phone to avoid wireless noise on DECT phones. The silent line is good for checking whether the problem is the external line or internal wiring

If you want to go really technical I'd recommend using an oscilloscope

 

[Wilko]

Oh dear - I really shouldn't write things late at night. If I'd have said MHz, I could have a shot at denying it. Having written it, I just have to say sorry and from the tone please consider me gone.

 

[jwg]

Instead of using plug in ADSL filters which can be a bit hit and miss and very prone to failing, get yourself a vDSL filter that fits onto the NTE5 which gives you the option of running filtered and unfiltered extensions for phone and broadband

This is very likely to help with your speeds, and also not wiring the bell wire (terminal 3) to any extensions. I have exactly this setup, and use multiple pairs to one of the extension sockets to get a filtered and unfiltered extension in the same point (as the master isn't situated where I'd like the router).

 

[PRR]

Some delayed observations perhaps already touched.

Voice-phones load-down the supersonic DSL signal. You *need* "filters" to reduce the voice-phones' loading on the line to the DSL.

Long lines "echo". Like a sewer pipe: if you talk s-l-o-w you can communicate, if you talk fast theeworodosarealljlumbletdogethther. If multiple long lines are "Y-ed" together, all the different echos overlap. The echo in a thousand feet (300m) of line is supersonic to voice band, but seriously befuddles DSL rate signals. DSL has echo suppression schemes which are wonderful but not miraculous.

In my older and limited experience, the dummy-way was to put a "phone filter" at every voice-phone. This got the phone guts semi-isolated (series inductance) from supersonic tones. It didn't reduce the added line-load and reflections from typically cheezy and haywire legacy phone lines all over the house.

The last house I had DSL had phone lines almost as old as Alex Bell. The line protector was from the 1920s. Generations of occupants had run low-grade telephone wires up down and back all over the sprawling house. Every type wire from CAT5 to saber-tooth cat, with some really ugly splices. (A bad splice is an additional echo.)

The DSL didn't work good. Even with filters at voice-phones. My guess was the signal was weak with all that wire hung on, and drowned in echos from branch-branch topology.

Running neat new phone lines was far too big a project. Just sorting-out and disconnecting the unused lines wasn't trivial, as I did not know what connected to what.

I went to the telephone entrance. Junction box with street line in and two lines out. One to the DSL box right there. Other to a DSL "phone" filter. This fed the as-found junction box with all the haywire legacy voice lines.

As you see, the DSL signal from the street only "sees" 10 feet of cable, a 1 foot branch, and the DSL modem. Really "smaller" than any house.

This worked flawlessly for years, at 97% of the speed I was paying for. (I later found the other 3% in an ethernet bottleneck.)

 

[PRR]

I just noticed that my drawing assumes the DSL modem may be placed "at" the point where lines come in from the street.

In my case, after putting the modem at the PC on the legacy haywire proved useless, I went straight to the source. The modem could sit in the cellar even better than at the PC, and running EtherNet to the PC happened to be trivial.

I suppose the modem could be placed on any "decent" length of "decent" wire away from that first junction, as long as that run has NO side-branches or voice-phones on it. So if your first junction is in public or damp, and you can put your DSL filter and second junction there, run dedicated CAT3+ wire inside to the modem.