Testing for dead

[D Skelton]

Hi people, just a quick question. I've ordered a couple of things online to go in my slowly expanding tool kit (I'm new to this game) and one of the things I ordered is a Steinel 1129 Voltcheck 3, link below. I only want it for testing for dead to make doubly sure that the circuit I'm working on isn't live. I got it because I wanted to steer well clear of a neon for obvious reasons but when I ordered it, I missed the part where it says it doesn't conform to GS 38. What is GS 38? Does it matter for what I want to use it for and most importantly, is it a good buy? Is it safe?

Steinel 1129 Voltcheck 3: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

 

[Sparky Ninja]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/gs38.pdf

The tester you have purchased is a good sensible step from a so called 'neon' mains tester.

I strongly suggest that you aim to replace the tester with a GS38 compliant one in the near future along with a proving unit. Only then would you be considered to be carrying out a safe isolation procedure effectively.

If you are a typical home DIY'er then you can probably get away with using a tester such as this for your own needs, however if you were operating commercially and using the equipment it will most certainly be considered as unacceptable.

 

[D Skelton]

Oh darn, should I send it back then? I'm currently in a sort of apprentice role at the moment whilst studying my 2357. I was planning to use it at work, mainly domestic and the occasional commercial job like I said, only to test for dead.

 

[accordfire]

GS38 is an HSE Guidance Note. It is NON-statutory, but......

Electricity at Work Regs 1989 specifically (Reg 14) which is statutory.

HSE GS38 defines the requirements for test instruments.

Two examples:

Doing a risk assessment for LIVE working, and decide to work LIVE, rather than dead, if you were using test instruments complaint with the requirements of GS38, you'd be seen to be complaint with Reg 14(c) EAWR.

Using non-compliant instruments, and with an incident occurring, it would most likely result in a prosecution against you under the same EAWR Reg 14 (c).

In your case, it's a mystery, to an extent why you wouldn't trust the initial precautions you were taking to ensure the circuit was dead - presumably you are intending to use another means of checking for current or voltage in a circuit in the first instance, or are you relying on the operation of a breaker or removal of a fuse?

The problem is this: Assuming you ARE relying on the operation of a breaker as the initial verification of the status of the circuit, and then proceed to use your volt stick to confirm the circuit is dead, and it isn't, AND it causes you to receive a shock, or injury, your initial means of verification will also NOT be GS38 complaint, and you would, in theory be liable to prosecution. If your Volt Stick was GS38 compliant, you'd not be, even though your initial method of verification is a bit Russian roulette anyway.

This will apply in ANY circumstance where you're not specifically working on your own equipment, under your own authority - i.e. any time a customer, member of public, or third party is involved in any capacity.

Long winded, but there it is.

 

[D Skelton]

I kind of get what you're saying. I'll see if I can explain exactly what I want. Basically, I came across a situation a week ago where me and my collegue were working in a house wiring an extention. We needed access to the downstairs lighting circuit so that we could get a feed for the new light. Anyway, there were lots of other builders working in different parts of the house and I didn't want to leave them without power or light so I isolated only the downstairs lights at the CU. Using my collegues voltage indicator I checked to make sure the circuit was dead at the light fitting and it wasn't and we quickly figured it was itself on a seperate, unmarked circuit, odd I know but hey. Anyway, this is what propted me to get my own. My collegue only has a two probed thingie-ma-bob with a light bulb on it and this is what he uses instead of a neon. I just wanted something similar for this simple test. Are you saying that it would be fit for this purpose or do I need to send it back and fork out some extra cash on something more fancy. Either way I don't mind, as long as whichever bit of kit I use (only testing for dead) is safe and legal.

Does that make sense?

 

[Sparky Ninja]

Bill has put it in very good black and white there for you.
So it is and isn't acceptable at the same time, it all depends on circumstance.
Now that you have mentioned you are in an apprenticeship sort role I would suggest obtaining a GS38 compliant tester. Electricians should not be without one.

 

[D Skelton]

Ok, so what you're saying is send it back and get a GS38 compliant tester. Do you have any reccomendations? A good one for a fair price?

Edit: I've just had a quick look, what's your thoughts on the Fluke T100?

 

[SimpleSimon]

Don't take it back but certainly don't rely on it. If your new to the game it's best to get in the habit of safe isolation with a compliant instrument.
I use both a volt stick and a two pronged voltage indicator. Any dead testing and safe isolation at the board is done with a voltage indicator. Anything where I've pulled a fuse in a FCU or where I'm adamant I've isolated the circuit than I use my volt stick just to double check.
But you do need to realise that instruments must comply with GS38 especially When using to isolate and test.

Oh and as stated buy a proving unit as well. If this is all infamiliar buy a copy of GN3

 

[SimpleSimon]

I've posted blindly. Just seen the instrument in question, can anyone see why it doesn't comply? Fingerguards are there, tips seem 4mm. Obviously can't see if leads are fused :s.

 

[a12jpm]

The way I look at it is what price would I put on getting a big belt.

Spend a little bit more and get something that you can rely use safely and confidently. An extra £7 gets you into Fluke teritory from isswww.co.uk

Link here.

 

[millwall ken]

Hi people, just a quick question. I've ordered a couple of things online to go in my slowly expanding tool kit (I'm new to this game) and one of the things I ordered is a Steinel 1129 Voltcheck 3, link below. I only want it for testing for dead to make doubly sure that the circuit I'm working on isn't live. I got it because I wanted to steer well clear of a neon for obvious reasons but when I ordered it, I missed the part where it says it doesn't conform to GS 38. What is GS 38? Does it matter for what I want to use it for and most importantly, is it a good buy? Is it safe?

Steinel 1129 Voltcheck 3: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

GS 38 is a H&S document that outlines the requirements for testing instruments - ie the machine is calibrated, insulated probes etc etc. You are correct in stating that voltsticks do not comply with GS38, and should NEVER be relied on to test whether a circuit is dead. ALWAYS carry out the correct safe isolation proceedure.

 

[ukpablo]

this is what i use bud.

Martindale MTL7 Test Lamp. Buy online or call

gs38 compliant too.

 

[accordfire]

I've posted blindly. Just seen the instrument in question, can anyone see why it doesn't comply? Fingerguards are there, tips seem 4mm. Obviously can't see if leads are fused :s.

Quite probably, it simply hasn't been submitted for certification. It even probably uses a previously certificated design.

The problem is, it isn't certificated. And that is all the HSE would need

 

[D Skelton]

Cheers guys. Any of you have any thoughts on the Fluke T100? Would this be fit for the purpose in question?

 

[millwall ken]

Cheers guys. Any of you have any thoughts on the Fluke T100? Would this be fit for the purpose in question?

I think you'll find that all of fluke's range complies with gs38 - but there is probably some smart --- out there just waiting to prove me wrong on this one!!!
You don't have to spend a million dollars on purchasing a half decent voltage and continuity tester mate.