Testing Question

[Shock Doctor]

Hi all,

I am changing over a consumer unit in an old flat, the feed to the block has just been renewed by EDF ( 6 months after I informed them of no earthing to building! ) The lighting circuit has no cpc, so I downloaded the guide to changing a CU with no cpc from the electrial safety council and followed it to the letter. My problem comes with the continuity test for the lighting circuit, as I have no cpc to test R1+R2 can I test between R1+RN at the light fittings to prove continuity as all connections are hidden in the ceiling and the switch drops T off the circuit in the ceiling also.

Any answers or advice gratefully received.

Many thanks.

 

[rocker]

What guide to changing a CU with no CPC?

 

[acat]

Rocker electric safety council have best practice guides one of them is a CU change with no earth well woth downloading


Chris

 

[Shock Doctor]

Ok so should I do a test between R1+RN to show willing and have something to record on the test schedule or would you just put N/A and state no cpc in lighting circuit?

 

[rocker]

I will download that, sounds interesting.

I'm assuming all fixtures and accessories are class 2? My instinct would be to put 'N/A:see notes' then give an expaination in comments, maybe adding an L1LN there. you won't be able to do a Zs, or a phase/cpc IR either, will you? Hmmm maybe ringing up your part p scheme to get their take on this would be a good idea.

 

[Shock Doctor]

Rocker, yes all fittings are plastic class2, the board is labelled up accordingly. The reason im asking is this is for my scheme assesment.

I know its not ideal but it is the only work available to me. Believe me I dont want to take a chance but im stuck in chicken and egg land, I cant get any electrical work because im not on a scheme and i cant get on a scheme 'cos iv'e got no electrical work to assess ( apart from this CU ) Im self employed and will not take on any electrical work untill im legal so this was the only family and friends job available to me.

Thanks alot for your advice though if it wasnt for forums like this I would never get a straight answer.

 

[rocker]

Who are you going with?

I've read the guide and it's nice and interesting. The one thing I will point out (as I'm sure you already know) is that this does NOT satisfy BS:7671, really it's going to depend on whether your scheme provider is willing to accept 'best practice' work. I know how hard it is to get the work for the initial assessment, and you will probably be fine with this, but really you want to im for a top notch installation for it! Can't you just eat the cost of doing your own home or something?

 

[Shock Doctor]

Im going to be applying for elecsa's part p domestic installer as they just seem to be the most straight forward.

I thought about doing something in my own home but I am waiting for a moving out date at the moment so not an option and would open an BIG can of worms. Im moving back in with family who have already let me put in a two way lighting circuit for them ( i paid for all materials ) but when I asked the scheme if this could be assessed they wanted something more to assess so hear I am back at the start. Frustration Central! Im hoping once im on the scheme life gets a little easier.

 

[rocker]

I'm on elecsa I have just sent them a message to see if we can get a definite answer from them.

It does get easier, but you've got to get the work which can be very difficult in this day and age (hence me sitting on my butt replying to forum messages all day)

 

[Shock Doctor]

Thanks Rocker,

One obstacle at a time get legal, attempt to get work, get busy, peg out!

If I had a quid for every numpty Ive seen claiming they know what they are doing with electrics I wouldnt need to work, thats why I thought I would get qualified and do my own electrical work. Im sure it will all work out nice in the end though

 

[rocker]

It will, as long as you stick to your guns and don't take the cowboy shilling.... it will get tempting sometimes, believe me.

 

[Shock Doctor]

I bet it does, but with my nagging concience Id never sleep again! Ive had days of worrying over this consumer unit even though its 1000 times safer than the ramshackle box of wires that were there before.

Thanks again for all your help and advice I will check in later to see if Elecsa get back to you ( gotta empty the van out for its MOT tommorrow, such an exciting life Ive had since becoming self employed! ).

 

[rocker]

Straight from the horse's mouth:

Hi Will
We think the best guidance is the Electrical Safety Council document, so compliance with this would also be our guidance.
On the installation certificate you need to detail the scope of works and also that there is no CPC to the lighting circuits, you can then show this as being a limitation (LIM) to testing or non applicable (N/A) to testing of the lighting circuits.

RegardsSteve HoultFor the Elecsa technical helpline.

From: Will Butler [mailto:***************@googlemail.com]
Sent: 13 May 2010 13:39
To: ELECSA
Subject: Technical Enquiry

Hi there, if I were to encounter a property with no CPC on a lighting circuit which needed a consumer unit change, and the customer did not want a new CPC run throughout the circuit, would it be permissable to install the new consumer unit to the guidelines in the Electrical Safety Council's best practice guide 'changing a consumer unit with no CPC on a lighting circuit', i.e. all class 2 accessories and fixtures, 30mA RCD, CU labelled etc?
If this is permissable, what would be the best thing to do for the installation cert - an R1R2 test would not be possible, nor would a Zs or an IR test between line and CPC? What should be written in these fields?

Any help would be appreciated

My ELECSA number is EPP*****

Thanks

Will B

 

[JUD]

At the end of the day they are only assessing the work that YOU have carried out which in this case is a CU change.

As long as all warning notices etc. are in place and you note it on cert. there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[chris gray]

very good question and solid answers - gotta love this forum