testing ??

[chopper]

hi, iv been working alongside my boss for a while now doing periodic and installation testing, for me to carry out my own PIR tests do i have to have my 2391 course and my 17th, or can i do the tests and get the boss who has these qualifications to sign them off.

 

[Guest123]

Hi

Well idealy you should have your 17th ed as proof of knowing compliance with the regs.

There is no law that states you must have you 2391 to carry out periodics the keyword is "competant".....BUT.... should anything go wrong then the powers that be would state that the 2391 is a sign of competancy to carry out periodic reporting and if you didn't have it you may find yourself in a spot of bother.

Would your gaffer carry the can for you if things did go pear shaped??? at least if you had your 2391 you could stand up and fight your corner.

 

[Des 56]

hi, iv been working alongside my boss for a while now doing periodic and installation testing, for me to carry out my own PIR tests do i have to have my 2391 course and my 17th, or can i do the tests and get the boss who has these qualifications to sign them off.

You require no qualifications whatsoever
You may or may not be competent
If you had the 2391 it would go a long way to demonstrating that you are competent

However, in the real world there is nothing wrong with what you suggest


If anybody questions that statement,then point them to the NICEIC who use this very method for all their companies

In my view it is not acceptable for undertrained people to carry out pirs that require an above average knowlege and understading of installations,but the NICEIC qualified supervisor oversigning aniothers testing is regarded as acceptable

So crack on with it as long as your boss oversigns knowing that you have complied with procedures as they stand at present

 

[Sintra]

If anybody questions that statement,then point them to the NICEIC who use this very method for all their companies

In my view it is not acceptable for undertrained people to carry out pirs that require an above average knowlege and understading of installations,but the NICEIC qualified supervisor oversigning aniothers testing is regarded as acceptable

Des i agree with what you have said. I personally as a NICEIC QS would not sign off a PIR unless i was 100% sure of the capabilities of the inspector.

I would tend to carry out the majority of PIR's myself as then i am sure of the content of the report.

 

[chopper]

cheers guys, im currently 3rd year apprentice, they told me at college to be competent is to have the 2391, suppose it is right in a way as someone said i would have a corner to fight

 

[Sintra]

No disrespect Chopper but i do not think that a 3rd year apprentice would be competent enough to be carrying out a PIR.

 

[trix]

No disrespect Chopper but i do not think that a 3rd year apprentice would be competent enough to be carrying out a PIR.

I totally agree . Even with 2391, unless testing for an eic or mwc.

A person without 2391 but the correct experience would be far more qualified to carry out pir's.

There again, a lot of niceic firms don't give a monkey's, or maybe that's where the problem lays

 

[drywax]

even with 2391 and 17th doesn't prove competence surely ?

Competence is a mixture of common sense and experience an my eyes.

I know a spark who has all the above but really doesn't have a clue when it comes to installing and his common sense is out the window.

He's quite quick to spurt out regs even if they contradict what he's doing.

the moral of the story being even if you can memorise a dictionary and the meaning of the words it doesn't necessarily mean you know in which context to use them.

 

[Des 56]

even with 2391 and 17th doesn't prove competence surely ?

Competence is a mixture of common sense and experience an my eyes.

I know a spark who has all the above but really doesn't have a clue when it comes to installing and his common sense is out the window.

He's quite quick to spurt out regs even if they contradict what he's doing.

the moral of the story being even if you can memorise a dictionary and the meaning of the words it doesn't necessarily mean you know in which context to use them.

The quote was a dose of common sense that the industry could do with
Well put

 

[WayneL]

And then there's the other side of the coin


Experience only counts if it's relevant experience - you might have served your time at Shell, for instance, and worked there for the last twenty five years -
doesn't mean you're going to have a clue when it comes to doing a PIR on a block of flats!

And even if you have 20 years experience of inspection and testing - have you been doing it right?

even with 2391 and 17th doesn't prove competence surely ?

Quite agree - but it does show that you 'get it' - inspection and testing, that is.


It shows you understand the principles, the theory and what is expected in an installation.


The C&G guidelines are that the 2391 exam is 'intended for experienced personnel working in the electrical industry' and
'is not intended for those who do not have experience in inspecting, testing and certifying electrical installations'

So, with all these 'experienced' sparks taking this exam - why is the pass rate 40%?,


I've just done the 2391 -


In my class there were twelve qualified sparks and me.

Their experience ranged from 10 to 25 years in all aspects of the industry - I was the least experienced. A great bunch of lads, by the way.


How many, apart from me, knew how to inspect and test........ one - he was doing it on a regular basis.
Everyone else was starting pretty much from scratch.


My point is - I don't think it's one thing or another - you need a mixture!


Experience of different installations is great and I think, in this job, you never stop learning - you'll always come across something new, even after twenty years in.
But...you definitely need understanding - you've got to know what you're doing and, more importantly, why you're doing it.


Unfortunately, some people will never get this - even if they put 50 years in as a spark - that's why the failure rate of the 2391 is so high!



Anyway, only my opinion - you don't have to agree


Cheers,


Wayne

 

[chopper]

cheers guys, experience and mass of knowledge is the key, i too dont think i am competent to do PIR

 

[IDsparks]

The failer rate is only high because most long term electrcians have become complacent. Also when you work for a company where profit overides the quality of the work being done then ignorance by the employee become common place. Most contractors need re-educating inorder to combine quality work and profit for there business.