The change in part P

[tom79bmth]

Is this right, with the changes in part p recently can I now sign someone else s work off for them not something I have ever done in the past.

But a friend has asked me ans wasn't sure about it and what certs to give etc

Thanks

 

[markc123]

Yes you can sign off someone elses work...

Just a couple of pointers though:

1) You wont find many sparks willing to do this. The reason being is that, non-electrically minded people wanting to save a quick buck (namely property developers) are doing all the work then getting the tradesmen to sign off what they've done. There is no way, unless you've been babysitting him throughout that you can tell whether this person has complied with current regulations throughout the process.

2) Be very careful, you sign something off - you're responsible. You need to make sure whoever has done the work is competent and knows there way round BS7671 religiouslly.

I wouldn't do it personally.

As regards to the certs to use? What is he not sure about...get him to read GN3 everything is crystal clear in there.

 

[tom79bmth]

Yes you can sign off someone elses work...

Just a couple of pointers though:

1) You wont find many sparks willing to do this. The reason being is that, non-electrically minded people wanting to save a quick buck (namely property developers) are doing all the work then getting the tradesmen to sign off what they've done. There is no way, unless you've been babysitting him throughout that you can tell whether this person has complied with current regulations throughout the process.

2) Be very careful, you sign something off - you're responsible. You need to make sure whoever has done the work is competent and knows there way round BS7671 religiouslly.

I wouldn't do it personally.

As regards to the certs to use? What is he not sure about...get him to read GN3 everything is crystal clear in there.

Ok I wouldn't sign off anyone's work, it's for a friend that is a spark's but works for a company and does a bit of Saturday work. So it's not like doing a eicr then

I will have a look into it perhaps a phone call to the niceic

 

[tom79bmth]

just found this on niceic site

The second major change relates to the use of a registered third party to certify notifiable work.
Previously, an electrical contractor undertaking work covered by Part P, but who was not
registered with a competent persons' scheme, was required to notify their local authority's
building control - who could then determine if the work was acceptable under the regulations.
Under the new regulations those carrying out the work but who are not registered with a
competent persons' scheme will have to get the work signed off by a registered third party.
This potentially could create a new stream of work for registered electricians. However, nonregistered
electricians must continue to notify their work to the LABC prior to commencement
until such time as the ‘third party certification’ scheme has been defined and in operation.
A suitable system for approving individuals to carry out certification has yet to be defined
along with a form or certificate so this work can be carried out.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

just found this on niceic site

The second major change relates to the use of a registered third party to certify notifiable work.
Previously, an electrical contractor undertaking work covered by Part P, but who was not
registered with a competent persons' scheme, was required to notify their local authority's
building control - who could then determine if the work was acceptable under the regulations.
Under the new regulations those carrying out the work but who are not registered with a
competent persons' scheme will have to get the work signed off by a registered third party.
This potentially could create a new stream of work for registered electricians. However, nonregistered
electricians must continue to notify their work to the LABC prior to commencement
until such time as the ‘third party certification’ scheme has been defined and in operation.
A suitable system for approving individuals to carry out certification has yet to be defined
along with a form or certificate so this work can be carried out.

This is it exactly....at the moment there is no system in place to 'sign off' other peoples work.

 

[Octopus]

I'm not sure how this farcical situation is going to resolve itself.

The schemes know that if they agree to such a system their membership numbers will fall, so what incentive do they have?

To be honest I'm not interested in signing off a 3rd partys' work, so for me this isn't an issue.

What on earth were the people who agreed to the amendments to part P thinking of??

1. Complicating the bathroom notifications

2. Removing kitchen minor works

3. Outside electrics!

All I can say is there must of been lots of lobbying by kitchen and bathroom companies.

 

[Piratepete]

What on earth were the people who agreed to the amendments to part P thinking of??

1. Complicating the bathroom notifications

2. Removing kitchen minor works

3. Outside electrics!

All I can say is there must of been lots of lobbying by kitchen and bathroom companies.

I agree with you wholeheartedly and was gobsmacked at the changes. Where will you find the most awful and dangerous DIY wiring? Kitchens and outside,of course! I'm sure I read somewhere that Part P was originally kicked off because someone with influence got electricuted in a kitchen.
Last Saturday I went to a lovely large old house with a large detached garage, extensive outside lighting and water features, socket 50 metres from the house all fed on an unfused radial from a socket ring! Had to disconnect the lot (temporarily) cos when it rained the RCD tripped. Extensive remedial work now required.

I see that the Welsh haven't downgraded their requirements! Are they worse at DIY than the English? Do they have worse kitchen fitters? I doubt it.
The politics around this issue in England stinks! I would love to see the rationale for downgrading Part P. It's clear that safety wasn't one of the issues!

Cheers
Grumpy Pete

 

[JulianC]

It will make bugger all difference in the real world. It's all a load of old balloons if you ask me. Those that work safely, diligently and to a high standard will continue to do so and those that bodge will continue to bodge. I've seen very little evidence of Part P actually doing much good, since those that don't know what they're doing tend not to trouble themselves with it. Until someone effectively polices Part P, any changes on paper will have minimal effect in the real world.

 

[Piratepete]

It will make bugger all difference in the real world. It's all a load of old balloons if you ask me. Those that work safely, diligently and to a high standard will continue to do so and those that bodge will continue to bodge. I've seen very little evidence of Part P actually doing much good, since those that don't know what they're doing tend not to trouble themselves with it. Until someone effectively polices Part P, any changes on paper will have minimal effect in the real world.

I think it made a difference in my area. Many of the 'handymen' and kitchen fitters around here stopped doing electrical wiring and more people were insisting on qualified electricians doing the work. Also helped that conveyancing solicitors were insisting on Part P Certs for extensions.

 

[PEG]

I think most would agree that a system that ensured quality of work and adherence of standards is a good idea,but here's the shock,we havent got one.So what your left with,like it or not,is a vast and varied cornucopia of properties and installations that vary from poor to dangerous. We have all probably visited some. This does NOT prevent these from changing ownership and being in constant use. So how to deal with this large,on-going and increasing issue? Well,having a thorough inspection,testing and assessment by a competent person who is prepared to stand by that judgement,subject to any noted restrictions,has got to be ONE way. I believe that the phrase "signing off someone elses work..." over simplifies the problem that is already out there and you can give the process any fancy nomenclature,but it will merely be a version of an EICR. This situation,of course,should not be,if the system to date had functioned properly,but it has not. So i say let those handy and knowledgable help the job out and,god forbid,earn a few quid :troll: