Thermodynamic Test results - Not good

[Worcester]

cheers for the link, but I need to monitor electrical consumption at the same time, and was also wanting to monitor solar irradiance, air temperature and wind speed.

I have the ability to do most of that already, just not to be able to data log it all in the same data logger.

Well, I might have, just need to find time to try to cobble it all together, and it involves removing the kit from our solar water heating system.

Should have it installed in the next few weeks I hope, got to get it in for at least part of the winter.

You could use the openenergymonitor.org system with emoncms for the display/logging function, (Emoncms ) and using emontx or various jeelabs/jeenode modules collect all the data ffrom the various sources, it would take a moment or two to work out the configuration, however most of the programming has been done, you just need to hook it up with the appropriate sensors. - Here's a raspberry pi hooked up to a maplin wireless weather station: Worcester Renewables - Live Weather Pages - Powered by Raspberry Pi logging data every 5 mins to the met office and wunderground.

 

[Gavin A]

You could use the openenergymonitor.org system with emoncms for the display/logging function, (Emoncms ) and using emontx or various jeelabs/jeenode modules collect all the data ffrom the various sources, it would take a moment or two to work out the configuration, however most of the programming has been done, you just need to hook it up with the appropriate sensors. - Here's a raspberry pi hooked up to a maplin wireless weather station: Worcester Renewables - Live Weather Pages - Powered by Raspberry Pi logging data every 5 mins to the met office and wunderground.

I understood about 90% of that, unfortunately I think the 10% I'm missing is probably the important bits.

will try reading it again when I've had some sleep I think.

 

[SolarCity]

I understood about 90% of that, unfortunately I think the 10% I'm missing is probably the important bits.

will try reading it again when I've had some sleep I think.

I think I only understand about 10% of this whole thread.

 

[Gavin A]

I think I only understand about 10% of this whole thread.

the important 10%?

 

[SolarCity]

the important 10%?

I'm guessing not. I understand most of the words used, but it's the order that they're placed in which is throwing me.

I really need to get to grips with these technologies.

 

[MCS Renewables]

It will of course be a lot easier to grasp this technology when the manufacturers of thermodynamics systems get independent test centres to verify the COP and other claims.

According to the Irish forum, these products have been available for around four years.

That is a VERY VERY long time to manufacture and sell equipment without getting it properly tested !

I would have thought that testing should have taken just over a year......... makes you wonder eh !

 

[v lowery]

If solar thermodynamic is such a great product why are the manufacturers not getting proper testing done ?

Why did the manufacturers of thermodynamic panels originally need to con the MCS into getting approval ?

Why are thermodynamic modules still not MCS approved ?

Why are customers of this product complaining about the running cost on various forums ?

I have had thermodynamics 3 years the 250ltr model and my electric bill is £500 a year to run compared to £140 gas bill I am going to court . it does not work in UK, I was told of £120 running cost per year, saving £20. to pay for its self 210 years never mind lost interest of £4200 cost.

 

[Worcester]

I have had thermodynamics 3 years the 250ltr model and my electric bill is £500 a year to run compared to £140 gas bill I am going to court . it does not work in UK, I was told of £120 running cost per year, saving £20. to pay for its self 210 years never mind lost interest of £4200 cost.

£500 is about the cost of running a 250 litre cylinder on the immersion heater for a year.

We wish you all the best with your court case - I presume that it'll be the Sale of Goods Act 1979 that you'll have to rely on as the Consumer Rights Act only came in in 2015.

Contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau also they may be able to help.

I hope you've got the financial illustration written down on their quote, else it'll be they said / I said and they'll wriggle out.

Which company was it that sold it to you and are they still trading?

And was it them that gave you the illustration or a commission based salesperson? - The salesperson may not have been employed by the installation company. - Did you also get an MCS certificate with it?

 

[v lowery]

6k plus, are u on drugs pal? stop twisting like a kid, mcs this mcs that. we install it for 3k all in. its clearly not the product its the people selling it, as for the performance of thermal its crap, and there are a a lot more complaints about thermal panels struggling to hit 18 degrees after september, one customer has reported with a thermal dynamics that performance dipped in early december buts still measured at 18 degrees on around the 10th of december which i think is great. had boiling hot water rest of the year.

£500 is about the cost of running a 250 litre cylinder on the immersion heater for a year.

We wish you all the best with your court case - I presume that it'll be the Sale of Goods Act 1979 that you'll have to rely on as the Consumer Rights Act only came in in 2015.

Contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau also they may be able to help.

I hope you've got the financial illustration written down on their quote, else it'll be they said / I said and they'll wriggle out.

Which company was it that sold it to you and are they still trading?

And was it them that gave you the illustration or a commission based salesperson? - The salesperson may not have been employed by the installation company. - Did you also get an MCS certificate with it?

 

[v lowery]

£500 is about the cost of running a 250 litre cylinder on the immersion heater for a year.

We wish you all the best with your court case - I presume that it'll be the Sale of Goods Act 1979 that you'll have to rely on as the Consumer Rights Act only came in in 2015.

Contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau also they may be able to help.

I hope you've got the financial illustration written down on their quote, else it'll be they said / I said and they'll wriggle out.

Which company was it that sold it to you and are they still trading?

And was it them that gave you the illustration or a commission based salesperson? - The salesperson may not have been employed by the installation company. - Did you also get an MCS certificate with it?

thanks for message. Energie who supply the goods to the company

£500 is about the cost of running a 250 litre cylinder on the immersion heater for a year.

We wish you all the best with your court case - I presume that it'll be the Sale of Goods Act 1979 that you'll have to rely on as the Consumer Rights Act only came in in 2015.

Contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau also they may be able to help.

I hope you've got the financial illustration written down on their quote, else it'll be they said / I said and they'll wriggle out.

Which company was it that sold it to you and are they still trading?

And was it them that gave you the illustration or a commission based salesperson? - The salesperson may not have been employed by the installation company. - Did you also get an MCS certificate with it?

thanks , filed court papers, run out on the 16th july " Dday . have emails and company papers, save £700/£800 a year off gas bill, pay for its self in 4 years " £1000 a year" get the MCS its in contract. have also a report from Tom of NARECDE its a test centre near me at Blythe NE England you can see there results, system tested BUT not at outside temps and not below 4 degrees, 6 hour run cycle and its running costs where still £250 a year , its "cold up north" 8 months of the year so this could easily hit £500 which is my electric rise, have energy bills before fitting and after. I only accepted this system because of the £7/9k tariff . company still trading and same sales people work for them. will keep you informed as to the case as this is the start of the opening of the flood gates. did a check of the cost for each customer £8k and £4200 crapped system £1000 to remove £13k x 10 clients £130,000 x 100 clients £1,300.000 this could finish them ?

 

[Gavin A]

For that size bill, an educated guess would be that the target temperature has been set at 55 degrees or higher with no interlink to an immersion for the last bit, which the system is struggling to hit so ends up running basically continuously at a very low COP.

Educated guess being that bill would mean it was pretty much running continuously 24/7.

Drop the target temp to 50 degrees (with weekly purge using the immersion heater) and I'd bet your bill would be more like the level you were hoping for.

Not that I'd be recommending that these systems should be replacing gas - their main use should be in off gas grid properties other than possibly those with solar pv installed that they want to use the excess generation from, and set the timer accordingly.

 

[Worcester]

The person/ organisation that you have to claim against / take to court is to whom you paid the money.

Are they still trading?

The manufacturer (Energie) will correctly claim it works fine in Portugal.

 

[v lowery]

The person/ organisation that you have to claim against / take to court is to whom you paid the money.

Are they still trading?

The manufacturer (Energie) will correctly claim it works fine in Portugal.

thanks for reply, company still trading but system is not on they web site now! by the time I have paid it off "210 years" our climate will be like Portugal. wife and daughter work shifts that end at 9 at night so baths are at night this system runs all night and day in the winter 8 months!

 

[v lowery]

For that size bill, an educated guess would be that the target temperature has been set at 55 degrees or higher with no interlink to an immersion for the last bit, which the system is struggling to hit so ends up running basically continuously at a very low COP.

Educated guess being that bill would mean it was pretty much running continuously 24/7.

Drop the target temp to 50 degrees (with weekly purge using the immersion heater) and I'd bet your bill would be more like the level you were hoping for.

Not that I'd be recommending that these systems should be replacing gas - their main use should be in off gas grid properties other than possibly those with solar pv installed that they want to use the excess generation from, and set the timer accordingly.

thanks for message, wife and daughter finish work after 9 at night so its bath time at night , I hear the system run all night 8/10 hours then there is the day time use its got to be running 20 hours a day all this system wants to do is stay at 55 degrees and at my expense!.

 

[v lowery]

Check the Irish and ex pat Portugese Forums.

Loads and loads of issues, problems, lack of trust in product, lack of reliable data peoples electricity bills going up etc etc.
Too many to list .....

Flat plate solar collector v Thermodynamic solar collector - boards.ie

News: Thermodynamic solar/anytime panels - boards.ie

Beware of Thermodynamic Panels ? | Silver Spray


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where do I find "the Irish and Portugese forums" , taking a TD company to court over the £500 a year running costs compared to my combi boilers £140 a year?, need info. thanks.

 

[Worcester]

It'll be more efficient during the day so can you at least put a timer with contactor or an immersion timer depending upon its power consumption so that it can't come on at night?
A 300 litre cylinder empty to full uses about 15kWh
How big is the cylinder? When do you use your hot water and how much at a time?

 

[v lowery]

It'll be more efficient during the day so can you at least put a timer with contactor or an immersion timer depending upon its power consumption so that it can't come on at night?
A 300 litre cylinder empty to full uses about 15kWh
How big is the cylinder? When do you use your hot water and how much at a time?

250ltr tank due to 2 people shiftwork baths at 9 at night 2 baths a night system runs all night and day. after the irish and Portuguese forums, cannot find them?. if I use timer I,ll have no hot water for day time,as said my combi did the same work for £140 a year "mains gas". they knew of shifts I was mis sold.

 

[v lowery]

update, its took a year but finally got the truth, its not 6 hours to heat up tank from cold its 6 hours summer time and 9 hours winter time and even longer when below freezing, so there claims of £120 a year running costs are WRONG. 7.30 hours average is £135 and if you use 2 tanks a day that's £270 a year, as said before my gas combi did my hot water for £140 a year. this is the best Christmas present I have had. and I got the email from "the horses mouth". Christmas came a day early.

 

[Wilko]

Hi - glad to hear you've got to the bottom of it. Just being nosey (sorry) ... was the email from supplier, as in they're saying they got the calcs wrong?

 

[v lowery]

It'll be more efficient during the day so can you at least put a timer with contactor or an immersion timer depending upon its power consumption so that it can't come on at night?
A 300 litre cylinder empty to full uses about 15kWh
How big is the cylinder? When do you use your hot water and how much at a time?

hi, my 250 ltr thermal dynamic expansion tank burst so has the company, the lads came outand turned off the system and shut off water valves, I have had a fitter out fixed tank opened water valves put o water no other water valves to be found but does the system need to be tuned on to allow water to flow. any thoughts. thanks. also I will need to put on a timer as system is costing £500 a year to run £140 was my gas bill, also I was at court about mis selling and company never turned up.

 

[v lowery]

Hi - glad to hear you've got to the bottom of it. Just being nosey (sorry) ... was the email from supplier, as in they're saying they got the calcs wrong?

25/7/2018 company never filed a defence or turn up at court I was awarded compensation for mis selling of goods. now I have to get them to pay up?