thinking about becoming an electrician.

Sean b23 · Oct 2, 2009

Hi all, as you guessed I'm totally new here. I'm actually a joiner(20 years experienced, although not fully qualified I'd say I'm a bloody good joiner) and good all round woodworker. I've played around with electrics since i was a kid and could probably wire a house no problem, but want to learn more.

Thinking of retraining as an electrician because a lot of people in the building trade don't take me seriously without that special piece of paper regardless of the fact I'm way better than a lot with the paper(I actually care about the work I'm doing and not just the money I'm making).... oh....I also hate the building trade, as I've seen it go downhill so much these past 20 years and electrics isn't restricted to the construction industry.

After reading the forums for a few hours i find conflict here. Some say experience is what you need, Some say the piece of paper is what you need. Is it possible to become an electrician(papers wise) in a few months(like some say you can) or a few years(like others say you have to)?

castlon11 · Oct 2, 2009

From what i have learnt here although i am a qualified spark i believe it's mostly what you know, so i would say its just learning the regulations for you (if you don't already know them). I think the best way forward would be to phone a registered training body or the NIC training officer (who i find is always helpful) and they will be able to inform you of a less practical course focusing on the regulations rather than the practical side of work. I believe there are many sorts of courses so you just need to find the one suited to you.

Sean b23 · Oct 2, 2009

Thanks for the tips Chris. I almost signed up for a 6 grand fast track.... then i came here. I'd really like to do a course, even if it only gets me to domestic level. I can always work my way up after that i guess.

Domestic would be handy as it would mean i don't need to get a spark in for kitchens and other domestic joinery jobs. but being fully qualified would open up a whole new world for me.

ianh41 · Oct 2, 2009

if you only want to work on houses you can do a part p course which is a short course but i think you need to put more time in if you want to have a wider range as an electrician

Sean b23 · Oct 2, 2009

I'm looking at Technique Trainings TEC20 course. It seems like this course would do the same as the 6 grand course i almost signed up for, but at less than half the price and from what it seems this course would do me good for domestic and more.

Although a lot is being said here about the qualifications achieved in this course and that they don't make you qualified as a spark(contrary to what the people providing these courses are saying). The people selling these courses say it will make you a fully qualified spark and that it is recognised abroad, but i hear here that the industry wont recognise you unless you have all of these qualifications as well as your 2330 and your NVQ. ???? What is the real story?

ianh41 · Oct 2, 2009

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]not sure if this would be of any help i don't know what other boards say

jib grading definitions--electrician grade
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Qualifications and Training[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Must satisfy the following three conditions:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1) Must have been a registered apprentice or undergone some equivalent method of training and have had practical training in electrical installation work.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2) Must have obtained an NVQ Level 3 in electrical installation work (or approved equivalent) - see Note 1.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3) Must have obtained a pass in the City & Guilds 2360 Electrical Installation Theory Part 2 Course or approved equivalent.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Note 1:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If the applicant meets the other two criteria but has not achieved an NVQ Level 3 in electrical installation, then a "Provisional" grading may be awarded if the following criteria are both satisfied:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]a) have obtained at least the City & Guilds 2360 Electrical Installation Theory Part 2 Course Certificate (or approved equivalent).[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]b) have obtained Achievement Measurement 2 or must be able, with the application for Grading and any other relevant supporting evidence (i.e. the City & Guilds Electricians' Certificate) which may be required, to satisfy the Grading Committee of his experience and suitability. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Duties[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Must be able to carry out electrical installation work efficiently in accordance with the National Working Rules for the Electrical Contracting Industry, the current IEE Regulations for Electrical Installations, and the Construction Industry Safety Regulations.[/FONT]

Sean b23 · Oct 2, 2009

Thanks Ian.

So I'm guessing condition 1 is either the apprenticeship which seems to be the 2330 or the equivalent, which is what the fast track courses are giving you. Condition 2 and 3 will need to be achieved after achieving condition 1.
I guess I'll need to find out what all these equivalents are.

Then after that it seems your qualified for the industry, unless you come across somebody oldschool who wont take anyone who's done the fast track instead of an apprenticeship.

ianh41 · Oct 2, 2009

The 2330 is the theory side(3) i think that replaced the 2360 The nvq 3 is the practical side(2) which is the same Must have been a registered apprentice or undergone some equivalent method of training(1)not sure what the equivalent method of training would be

Dave · Oct 2, 2009

Hello and welcome...

Sean b23 · Oct 2, 2009

Cheers for the link Dave.
Looks like quite a handy pile of books.

Found the IEE Wiring Regulations 17th Edition book reviews rather amusing. How important is it to have a copy of this book?

Graeme Harrold · Oct 2, 2009

As with any trade there are two routes to becomming good. The true artisans learned their skills through time on the tools, learned from mistakes and generally guided through their early years by a time served pro. In the new age of cominality and regulations, everyone needs to sing off the same song sheet and although the regs dont state qualifications required, lawyers will hang you out to dry if you dont have them as its one of the initial ways to prove competance, so training plays a more important part in todays trade. Doing the courses is an excellent head start, but you will still lack a vast proportion of on the job skills knowledge a time served apprentince has. e.g. hardware knowledge, installation skills, routing problems on real builds etc..................

So swings and roundabouts, but no shorcuts............

Sean b23 · Oct 3, 2009

Thanks Graeme, you say it how it is. This is something I understand fully. Being a joiner with 20 years experience on the tools and teaching myself to be a good competent all round woodworker. I expect to learn and make mistakes and I expect it to take time. Although from my experiences, I know i have the ability to do it. I've already learned many things about electricity, blowing things up and giving myself shocks as a child, learning form others, transferring existing skills etc.

I guess what I'm trying to find out here is the fast way to the actual qualifications because like you say, the lawyers will hang you out to dry if you don't have them. Then i can happily spend my time developing the knowledge that can only come with time. Although some people can learn these skills a lot quicker than others. I've met good young guys that really know their stuff and old guys that don't have a clue, so i guess it boils down to the fact that some people have it and some people don't.

You mention true artisans. When it comes to the woodwork side of things, although i don't have all the pieces of paper, that is what I am. I feel if i can get into the electrical side of things with the pieces of paper and some good electricians guiding me then I still have time to become good.... that's my plan anyway.

Graeme Harrold · Oct 3, 2009

Remember the quals are mainly just theory, the real experiance is on the job. Having served my time in REME with the Army, the definition on competance was broken into 3 distinct areas:

Training - shown the necessary skills to perform your trade
Experiance - time served on the equipment/trade group
Currency - are you still current on the kit, this was the contentious oneas after a gap of 3 years working on a specillist bit of kit, you yere no longer deemed competent.......skill fade!!!!

From a joinery point of view, doing the building regs course may teach you where and what size a door needs to be, but dosent teach you how to do it. The courses have nice tidy easy to wire rigs, so you learn nothing about the practicalities of running/pulling cables from A to B.

So basically bare in mind that the qualls will give you a running start, but it will still take some time before you become comfortably skilled on the job.

Sean b23 · Oct 3, 2009

Graeme Harrold said:
The courses have nice tidy easy to wire rigs, so you learn nothing about the practicalities of running/pulling cables from A to B.

Ha ha. Yes the black art of fishing

Luckily enough, this is something I have experience with. Running cables, putting in boxes, wiring sockets and switches etc. All the stuff that I often need to do so I can get on with things if the spark isn't around.

Also, no offense to anybody here. I often find myself re-doing a sparks work when the cables are in the wrong place, sockets in the wrong place, sockets not level and generally leaving things unsightly. Generally not as bad as the state plumbers leave things in though.