Three way and single pole

[Wilbur Ressler]

Do I need to have 2 power sources if I have a three way switch and a single pole switch in the same electrical box? The three way will have another switch at a different door for inside lights. The single pole will be for an outside light.

 

[joesparky]

Do I need to have 2 power sources if I have a three way switch and a single pole switch in the same electrical box? The three way will have another switch at a different door for inside lights. The single pole will be for an outside light.

no you dont need two different hots. . its just gonna be on the same circuit, thats all

 

[Wilbur Ressler]

no you dont need two different hots. . its just gonna be on the same circuit, thats all

Thanks for your reply but for clarification, I understand what you are saying if it’s at the power source of the first switch of the three way but in this case the single pole would be at the second switch of the three way, between the first and the lights. If I piggybacked off of the power there would the single pole not be controlled by the three way switches. Because there is no free hot wire.

 

[Timbo]

Put up a sketch of how it is currently wired.

 

[Wilbur Ressler]

Thanks for your reply but for clarification, I understand what you are saying if it’s at the power source of the first switch of the three way but in this case the single pole would be at the second switch of the three way, between the first and the lights. If I piggybacked off of the power there would the single pole not be controlled by the three way switches. Because there is no free hot wire.

. My question is regarding how to power the outside light at door number 2. The inside light will have three way switches at both doors.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

With traditional 3-way hookup there is no permanently live hot wire at the far end (door 2) to power an independent light via the 1-way switch, just the travelers and neutral. With 'Coast 3-way' there is a permanent hot, but no neutral. So, either you must run a separate feed with both hot and neutral for that outside light, or you will need at least four wires between the switches excluding ground whichever configuration you use for the 3-way: (hot, neutral, 2x traveler) or (hot, neutral, 3-way switched hot, switch common.)

 

[Megawatt]

Do I need to have 2 power sources if I have a three way switch and a single pole switch in the same electrical box? The three way will have another switch at a different door for inside lights. The single pole will be for an outside light.

Wilber welcome to the forum and no you don’t need but 1 power source at your switch box, then you attach the live wire to each switch using a wire nut. After that you should have at lease 3 conductors under one wire nut with one being the live, one for 1 switch and the 3rd for the other switch

 

[westward10]

Wilber welcome to the forum and no you don’t need but 1 power source at your switch box, then you attach the live wire to each switch using a wire nut. After that you should have at lease 3 conductors under one wire nut with one being the live, one for 1 switch and the 3rd for the other switch

There is no permanent hot at his switch position.

 

[Megawatt]

There is no permanent hot at his switch position.

He didn’t say that in his original post

 

[westward10]

He didn’t say that in his original post

He does in #3.

 

[joesparky]

Thanks for your reply but for clarification, I understand what you are saying if it’s at the power source of the first switch of the three way but in this case the single pole would be at the second switch of the three way, between the first and the lights. If I piggybacked off of the power there would the single pole not be controlled by the three way switches. Because there is no free hot wire.

ok just erase everything you are thinking and start over.

Lets use a water illustration.

I got a hose that comes from the backyard spout. I want to split the line. So I put a "Y" connector. then I run those two hoses straight to the same location across the backyard.

So now, Here I am holding two hoses, on the other side of my backyard. then I take another "Y"connector, shaped like a "Y", right?
I take those two hoses and connect it to the "Y"

that combines the water BACK into a single hose line, right?

well now I run that single hose to my tree!

Now why on earth did I just take a single line, split it into two lines, only to combine it back again into a single hose again?!


Well thats what a three way is doing. You take a single hot wire, and you place it on the black wire of the three way. (the three way is just like that "Y" hose connector) Then the three way splits it into two wires. so lets do that.

Take two wires (preferably the same colors so you wont be confused, but it doesnt HAVE to be)
take two wires and place it on the two Gold color screws on the three way.

Ok now we run those two wires in your hand All the way to your other location, and then we add another "Y" switch (aka, another three way switch) And then you take those two wires in your hand and connect them to the two gold color screws.

Now, just like the hose illustration, we have combined it BACK to being a single wire, and we do that by taking a wire and placing it on the BLACK screw.

Well now we take that single wire and connect it to the light.




What about the neutral? IT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH THIS.

It just has to be up there, waiting for you to finish all this.

So in the end, your light will have a neutral, and a single wire that came from that final "Y" switch

 

[Wilbur Ressler]

Thanks for your reply. Your hose description is good. Except I don’t think it addresses my issue. I’m not asking about the light controlled by the two three way switches. I’m asking if there is a way to get power from the second switch, or Y in your example, for another light and switch that is not controlled by the three way switches. The three way switches are for an inside light. I want to also have a switch for an outside light from the same box/location.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

As per my post #6, if your existing cable to the far switch position is 3-wire with ground, there is no way it can serve both the 3-way and the far 1-way by itself, using conventional switches. At least 4 wires plus ground are needed at the far end to provide the hot, neutral and two travelers.

However, there might be an electronic / smart 3-way switching option that requires only one control wire between the two switch positions instead of two travelers. If there is a neutral at the first switch position, the redundant 3-way traveler could then be re-purposed so that a permanent hot and neutral are both available at the far switch for the light on the 1-way.

 

[Wilbur Ressler]

Yes, saw your earlier message. I was just wanting to write a clarification for the other person who just responded. I understand what you are saying. Thank you.

 

[joesparky]

ok, so here we are back at the Y example
[automerge]1598834577[/automerge]

Now, your question is answered if you think on it. For a light to work, we need a hot and neutral.
In my picture, my Hot and neutral are located downstairs.

If I want to tap off of all this for some other light somewhere, or an outlet or anything, I will need to grab it at that downstairs area where the hot and the neutral are.

If I were to try and grab my new light or outlet from UPSTAIRS at switch 2, I actually wont have a HOT and neutral. I will only have the two oranges (a) and (b), and a wire going to the light (c). when Im at switch 2, those are called travellers(a) and (b) and a switchleg(c). NOT a "HOT," and thats what I need. A HOT.

Done deal