J

jimmyjazz

I have a customer who get's minor 'tingles' from her taps. I have tested installation & found between 10 & 14 mA on main earth with main switch & breakers off. I have read threads regarding possible cause being EMFs, but can anyone help with how to remove 'tingles'? Property has correct size bonding & sup. bonding installed.
 
Check the earth bond to the water first also check the immersion heater ,I had a call for exactly the same thing a few months ago ,got to the house found a woman in her dressing gown shaking like a leaf , she was having a bath put her hand on the tap placed her foot in the bath and got blown across the bathroom ,infact when i tested i found every single metal item even the flush handle on the loo was live 230 volts , what had happend a fault had developed in the airing cupboard live Earth short ,the fault had blown the earth from its connection and the live had welded itself to the hot water cylinder , earth to water was not connected just coiled up under the sink one lucky woman also as has been said check the main supply you may well have a neutral fault that is back feeding down the earth ,especially on a TNCS / PME system
 
Hmmm - thinking about this, if she is getting tingles their must be a voltage of 20 to 50 ish volts involved to push a current thru her. The voltage to drive the 14 mA thru the earth would be tiny (much, much smaller than one volt) bearing in mind the resistance of the earth. It could be that the current in the earth is a separate fault/problem?

Have you put a voltmeter across a tap to earth / neutral?

Be very interested to hear if you get it sorted.
 
Hi chaps,

I'm thinking broken sup. bond somewhere. So I'd be testing at the taps, not at the main earth.

If the touch voltage is less than 55 you could always tell the customer it's within the regs...:D:D:D

Eh?
 
Thanks for replies...Property is TN-S, Ze 0.29, PFC 0.80. 16mm Earth & 10mm bonds. Supp. bonding across pipework in boiler cupboard.Split load board, All MCB's & main switch off - reading at Main earth with leakage devise 14mA. No tingle. Circuits on tingle at taps. I think the fault is external, could it be from an adjacent property? I've got a re-visit Wednesday:(
 
Thanks for replies...Property is TN-S, Ze 0.29, PFC 0.80. 16mm Earth & 10mm bonds. Supp. bonding across pipework in boiler cupboard.Split load board, All MCB's & main switch off - reading at Main earth with leakage devise 14mA. No tingle. Circuits on tingle at taps. I think the fault is external, could it be from an adjacent property? I've got a re-visit Wednesday:(

Try breakers one at a time to identify which circuit introduces the voltage at the tap. Thoroughly investigate that circuit ...

still thinking the main earth current might be unrelated, maybe a tiny induced voltage, after all that is there when the circuits are off.

Is the 14 mA still there when the circuits are on?
 
This reminds me of a fault I had many years ago in my own house. I’d just installed gas central heating, the very last job for me to do was connect the gas pipe to the gas meter. Touched the two ends of the pipe and got a spark! Not good thought I, well to hell with it jammed the pipe together and soldered the joint. On putting a clamp meter round the pipe found 25A flowing through it :confused: Turned off supply to my house, still 25A, I’m getting confused at this point :confused::confused: I’m confused, the wife is frantic,:mad: no gas or electric now! Phoned electricity board, and after speaking to one of their engineers was told to keep both supplies turned off, they’ll get back to me. Not 2 mins later phone rings, we’ll be there in 20 mins! 4 vans and 2 overhead line wagons showed up! I did live in a rural area so supplies to the road were overhead. Much head scratching followed, at one point we disconnected the gas meter and slung that out in the back yard. In all seriousness this was the point the gas meter reader showed up:o It was decided to disconnect the entire road from the supply. By this time I’m not the flavour of the month with the entire road, we’ve now got 12 houses with out supply. The OH crew found a burnt line tap on the neutral. Further tests showed a neutral earth fault some where in one of the 12 houses. As I knew all the neighbours I got delegated to got to each house and isolate the supplies, how come this ended up as my job? Eventually there’s a shout from the OH crew as I isolated the furthest house on the road, “faults gone”. Electricity board senior engineer then goes in to “Hitler” mode, tells my neighbour “unsafe installation your supply will be disconnected until rectified”. While the OH crew are repairing the connections to the road I hijacked the apprentice that had come with the board and checked through the house. The apprentice found the neutral fault in a socket, the facia screw had bitten in to the core. OK now neighbours supply can be reconnected as well.

Now think about it the neutral for 12 houses was going through one 3.5mm screw. The house was bonded to the water pipe only. The current travelled along the water pipe until it got to my house, I’d just rewired and fitted CH. So it was a case of if it doesn’t move bond it, the current then went through my house and out through the gas pipe and spike. (I’ve never understood why a steel gas pipe is a better earth than lead water pipe, but it always is)? Just how in the name of god my neighbours house didn’t burn down I’ll never know. The fault must have been there for years.

Part of the reason for the electricity boards panic was there was a government fuel storage dump about 100m from the road. They use cathodic earth bonding which can cause fun and games. But had the fault been from there it would have been DC and not shown on my meter.
 
Thanks Tony, I have an itch about this that points to something similar. House is down unmade road with a small group of others, I may check one of thiers too. My nearest story to yours was when I went to the usual 'I've changed the light' bang faullt. Re-wireable 5A fuse blown. Rectified fault, put fuse back in, no power to house? back to board in garage & power on, back to house power off....this took a while. Upshot was SEB dug up road & chaps drive to find perished joint. I just happened to be there at the time. Customer still looking at me sideways until the power was re-instated!
 
I had one a few years ago periodic lady of the house made us a coffee removed the CDU cover and as i did the Zs test the power went off ,god did i get ear ach , it wasnt me some numpty digging a hole cut through the 11kv underground cable had to go back another day to do it no coffee that day though ,when we left the was a strange aroma of scorched underpants though
 
Great when they start digging holes. I did a safety induction to a group of contractors that were levelling some ground. It was known that an 11KV cable ran though the area but as to where wasn’t to clear, the cable had been installed in the 1930’s. The scale of the work was so great that “hand digging” was impractical. So muggin’s (me) showed the contractor’s forman the locked and earthed OCB’s at each end of the cable.
At the end of the contract the forman was asked, “did you come across the cable”? No, no sign of it. Just glad I wasn’t around for this next bit. Remove earths (both ends), restore the supply for as long as it takes for a PBO relay to register both O/L & EF (about 1/100th of a second).

They’d found the cable all right! They nicked 150m of it!
 
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Had same on a call out few weeks ago 14v on incomming earth in remote area ! the fault was on dno supply after calling them and them sending out a jointer telling us the fault was on our end i requested a linesman to check and he confirmed there were a number of faults on their side ! funny thing is there are tractors going past all day and i then found out that the supply pole for overhead supply had beed sparking just before ! linesman sorted their end and fault on taps/bonding/cpc block gone ! bloody jointer !
 
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This reminds me of a fault I had many years ago in my own house. I’d just installed gas central heating, the very last job for me to do was connect the gas pipe to the gas meter. Touched the two ends of the pipe and got a spark! Not good thought I, well to hell with it jammed the pipe together and soldered the joint. On putting a clamp meter round the pipe found 25A flowing through it :confused: Turned off supply to my house, still 25A, I’m getting confused at this point :confused::confused: I’m confused, the wife is frantic,:mad: no gas or electric now! Phoned electricity board, and after speaking to one of their engineers was told to keep both supplies turned off, they’ll get back to me. Not 2 mins later phone rings, we’ll be there in 20 mins! 4 vans and 2 overhead line wagons showed up! I did live in a rural area so supplies to the road were overhead. Much head scratching followed, at one point we disconnected the gas meter and slung that out in the back yard. In all seriousness this was the point the gas meter reader showed up:o It was decided to disconnect the entire road from the supply. By this time I’m not the flavour of the month with the entire road, we’ve now got 12 houses with out supply. The OH crew found a burnt line tap on the neutral. Further tests showed a neutral earth fault some where in one of the 12 houses. As I knew all the neighbours I got delegated to got to each house and isolate the supplies, how come this ended up as my job? Eventually there’s a shout from the OH crew as I isolated the furthest house on the road, “faults gone”. Electricity board senior engineer then goes in to “Hitler” mode, tells my neighbour “unsafe installation your supply will be disconnected until rectified”. While the OH crew are repairing the connections to the road I hijacked the apprentice that had come with the board and checked through the house. The apprentice found the neutral fault in a socket, the facia screw had bitten in to the core. OK now neighbours supply can be reconnected as well.

Now think about it the neutral for 12 houses was going through one 3.5mm screw. The house was bonded to the water pipe only. The current travelled along the water pipe until it got to my house, I’d just rewired and fitted CH. So it was a case of if it doesn’t move bond it, the current then went through my house and out through the gas pipe and spike. (I’ve never understood why a steel gas pipe is a better earth than lead water pipe, but it always is)? Just how in the name of god my neighbours house didn’t burn down I’ll never know. The fault must have been there for years.

Part of the reason for the electricity boards panic was there was a government fuel storage dump about 100m from the road. They use cathodic earth bonding which can cause fun and games. But had the fault been from there it would have been DC and not shown on my meter.

i enjoyed that story
 
Today's reading was 1.19 mA with power off. Checked detached nieghbour & got .18mA. Called SEB & wait for the result.

Be interested in what they say.

Don't know if it is relevant or not but an immediate neighbour is almost certainly going to be on a different phase. Same phase is often 3 doors down.

No joy on measuring a voltage at the taps?
 
Today's reading was 1.19 mA with power off. Checked detached nieghbour & got .18mA. Called SEB & wait for the result.

Here we go for another road disconnected :D
At least this time it'll be you feeling the eyes boring in to your back

Let us know how you go on :eek:


One advantage of my little episode was the board realised how bad the OH supplies were.
4 houses fed off each phase.
7/.064” paper insulated cotton braid covered.
Tee’s to each house in cast iron boxes, no bonding
30A rewirable service fuses (except mine I’d up rated it)
All houses relying on bonding to water pipe (except mine)

All were updated very quickly

The added advantage the old goat living next door never spoke to me again :p :D :) :rolleyes: :o
 
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Be interested in what they say.

Don't know if it is relevant or not but an immediate neighbour is almost certainly going to be on a different phase. Same phase is often 3 doors down.

No joy on measuring a voltage at the taps?

Very true ! unless link in link out.
 
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Sorry for late reply to this, SEB crept in under cover of darkness, dug a hole & left before customer found out, bless. Called them to check results & the notes show a faulty joint that has now been repaired. Thanks again for all input.
 
Funny you guys should say about the every third house on same phase. I always thought this was correct until I spoke to one of the DNO jointers and he informed me that all of my road was on one phase along with 2 adjoining roads and part of the main road opposite us

I was really supprised by this
 
The road I referred to was done in blocks of 4, 12 houses, 1st 4 Blue, 2nd 4 Yellow, 3rd 4 Red.
Each block of 4 had only one 7/.064” paper insulated cotton braid covered OH line.
 
Funny you guys should say about the every third house on same phase. I always thought this was correct until I spoke to one of the DNO jointers and he informed me that all of my road was on one phase along with 2 adjoining roads and part of the main road opposite us

I was really supprised by this

Hi buddy is that link in link out ? they seem to do some roads like this to save copper !
 
Today's reading was 1.19 mA with power off. Checked detached nieghbour & got .18mA. Called SEB & wait for the result.

Is the tingly taps issue now sorted then and the outside fault was responsible?
Was the reading 1.19 amps or 0.00119 amps:confused:

Did you ever get a voltage reading at the taps?

cheers.
 
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