To RCD or not

[Spikenaylor]

Hi there.

Got a job to change external light, old rewireable fuses, no RCD.

As there is the chance and they do, use sockets to power outdoor stuff, do I recommend them to fit plug in rcds all the time, or do I fit a RCD to the installation, if I fit a RCD then by the regs I have to spilt the circuits so not everything goes off.
Is this the case and what route should I take.

Spikenaylor

 

[Guest111]

you could just fit a couple of rcd sockets labelled up for equipment outdoors, or even an outdoor rcd socket even better.

 

[Brightspark2]

As said RCD socket outlets could be the answer...

 

[Guitarist]

Mant people just use the old "powerbreaker" plug-ins for outdoor equipment. Depends how much money the client wants to throw at the project.

 

[Knobhead]

Could I ask what sockets have got to do with an outside light?
This a money making scam?

 

[Spikenaylor]

Nothing to do with the outside light, the rest of the house is not RCD protected, which is fine, but as they use various sockets for outside use, and as far as I can see, not even plugin rcds, so just looking at what advice to give client, if they have an electric shower already fitted, then isn't an RCD fitment required?

 

[ackbarthestar]

Hi there.

Got a job to change external light, old rewireable fuses, no RCD.

As there is the chance and they do, use sockets to power outdoor stuff, do I recommend them to fit plug in rcds all the time, or do I fit a RCD to the installation, if I fit a RCD then by the regs I have to spilt the circuits so not everything goes off.
Is this the case and what route should I take.

Spikenaylor

From what I can gather the customer wants the light replaced but doesn't want to spend any money upgrading the installation?
and there is a strong possibility that equipment will be plugged in and used outside?

Well, RCDs have been in existence for the last 30 years to provide protection for external equipment. A fuse is unlikely to protect a person from direct contact (basic protection) in the likely event that a cable gets split/cut (lawn mowers etc.)

Fitting a front end 30mA RCD may not comply with 314 but will offer a level of basic protection as well as earth fault protection for all the circuits. This is a must for TT systems.

So, what about the condition of the other circuits in the house; the supply; the earthing; the condition of outlets? What will you put in your MWC?

 

[Spikenaylor]

The rest of the circuits look fine visually, sockets, switches etc look in good condition, wiring in cu looks ok, usual tests show fine.
she had new shower fitted last year, and she does use sockets to power garden stuff without any plugin rcd's
she is happy with upfront RCD and NO CU change, and is happy that anything tripping it will trip everything.

So I fit the RCD, test it, do I need to tests all the circuits as I have changed the installation characteristics?
Fitting Henley blocks and new RCD and part new tails, would that count as minor works or new circuit? Is it notifeable?

I assume I would put down departure from BS7671 as it doesn't meet 314, I have made the installation safer, but not met the regs which indicate a split circuit arrangement. Would I fail an inspection if that installation was inspected?

Just trying to get my head round it all, especially interpreting the regs.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

If you are not altering or adding to the installation, and all you are doing is replacing like for like, then just get on and do it. Do the essential tests as per the MWC, advise them that they may want to consider upgrading their CU at sometime, and the reasons why. If you dont change the light someone else will, and that someone else may bodge it. at least a qualified spark is a better bet than the pub electrical handyman expert, if you get my drift.

This is a classic case of common sense before regs.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[rich.250]

I can see your point for fitting an Rcd. Although it is not required for the like for like replacement you are undertaking.
As previously said, it may well be worth changing the light and giving the mwc. Then recommending a consumer unit change. But it definitely doesn't NEED doing for you to do the job

 

[Spikenaylor]

I agree with the not needed for the like for like replacement, but pointing out to the client, that at least fitting an upfront RCD is a good thing (Electric Shower added protection for one thing) especially if they can't guarantee always using plugin RCD's for external stuff would make the installation more on the safe side, isnt that the right thing to do. She has agreed to have an RCD fitted, I just wanted to be clear about the regs if I did fit the RCD. I know the CU would then not meet the divison of circuit regs, she doesn't want a new CU yet, all looks fine, but putting in RCD seems a safe logical choice for added protection.

 

[rich.250]

I personally wouldn't put an Rcd up front as it wouldn't comply. And as its a new addition it should. I would suggest upgrading the unit in the future.

 

[snailhunter]

If you are going to fit this RCD before the board then make sure you carry out all you tests IR, Cont etc before as fairly embarrising if you find new RCD just tripps all the time.

 

[londonlec]

If your that bothered fit RCD socket outlets beside the ground floor doors.

Other than that it looks like your making a huge job out of a £50 one.

 

[rich.250]

I agree with the not needed for the like for like replacement, but pointing out to the client, that at least fitting an upfront RCD is a good thing (Electric Shower added protection for one thing) especially if they can't guarantee always using plugin RCD's for external stuff would make the installation more on the safe side, isnt that the right thing to do. She has agreed to have an RCD fitted, I just wanted to be clear about the regs if I did fit the RCD. I know the CU would then not meet the divison of circuit regs, she doesn't want a new CU yet, all looks fine, but putting in RCD seems a safe logical choice for added protection.

Have a look at reg 314.