To remainers and leavers alike please read for an interesting take on the matter

[FatAlan]

REVEALED: How Whitehall thought British public TOO STUPID to be trusted with EU decision - https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/883540/FCO-30-1048-Brexit-EU-secret-document-damned-Britain-EU-membership
Does this change your views on Brexit? Were you aware of these issues?

What actually is the advantage of exiting our current membership of the EU?
What evidence is there that we are a puppet state?

 

[Baddegg]

Said it before and I’ll say it again, the majority of that vote and result was born out of frustration at the political class ignoring the electorate.......and probably because a statement like that makes me a racist in every coffee shop in the country!

 

[FatAlan]

REVEALED: How Whitehall thought British public TOO STUPID to be trusted with EU decision - https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/883540/FCO-30-1048-Brexit-EU-secret-document-damned-Britain-EU-membership
Does this change your views on Brexit? Were you aware of these issues?

What actually is the advantage of exiting our current membership of the EU?
What evidence is there that we are a puppet state?

Said it before and I’ll say it again, the majority of that vote and result was born out of frustration at the political class ignoring the electorate.......and probably because a statement like that makes me a racist in every coffee shop in the country!

Problem is that this situation is down to the political class manipulating the electorate based on fear whipped up based on their inept management. For example - Islamaphobia bought on by Middle East crisis bought on by refugee crisis down to the West’s destabilisation of that area. Nothing to do with EU.

 

[Baddegg]

Couldn’t agree with you morevthere Alan......after being hit by a car nearly 3 weeks ago I was discharged from hospital I was told to contact my gp to continue my care, I rang the gp and was told the next appointment was 6 weeks! So after 2 weeks of pain I decided to go and just wait in the surgery to be seen...........I didn’t meet single Frenchman in there.....


My point being this is what the elderly in our country are dealing with day in day out.....and they make up a large percentage of the leave vote

 

[The Ghost]

What evidence is there that we are a puppet state?

Let us rephrase the question; What evidence is there we are a democracy? Do the elected listen and act in accord with the electorate? Do your local council do what you want? Does your MP or local councillor respond to the majority will? My experience is no. For instance a majority voted to leave. In a democratic system that would have been the end of the matter. However it is not is it.
To look at your question, puppet state a meme that does not really capture the state of things. Does the state act independently of the judiciary? Does the judiciary act independently from the state? Have we ceded powers to a foreign entity? I think no, no and yes. We now have an unelected bureaucracy dictating laws and the make up of our country without reference to the sovereign people. We the electorate says what does go on and what does not. But apparently not. Our government is on its' knees to a foreign power begging to be let out of class and like a worm on a hook. Why do not the government just say ta-da pal and get about the business we elected them for which is to leave?

 

[The Ghost]

refugee crisis down to the West’s destabilisation of that area. Nothing to do with EU

Have you heard of quotas? If so how can you say Nothing to do with EU. It is the EU orchestrating a demographic change. Have you heard of No Go zones? Have you looked at crime figures throughout the west for the previous twenty (say) years? And if so I would love to hear how you come to the idea of us stupid people being manipulated by fear by the political class (read, more intelligent than us?) I for one am not manipulated by any person in this land. I dare say there are many many like me who are actually more intelligent than you would give us credit for and as fearless as a Lion to boot.

 

[The Ghost]

The advantage of exiting the EU (wwwww!) is that we reclaim our sovereignty and no longer are ruled by some remote unknown shadowy entity. I am not against a common market but I am against governance which is tyranny.

 

[SparkyChick]

For example - Islamaphobia bought on by Middle East crisis bought on by refugee crisis down to the West’s destabilisation of that area. Nothing to do with EU.

The sad thing is, I don't feel able to argue this as to do so puts me at risk of being branded a racist hate monger by the thought police.

Suffice to say, if you believe fearing it makes someone irrational (a phobia is after all an irrational fear), then it is my opinion you don't know enough about it.

 

[FatAlan]

The advantage of exiting the EU (wwwww!) is that we reclaim our sovereignty and no longer are ruled by some remote unknown shadowy entity. I am not against a common market but I am against governance which is tyranny.

Ok, how are they ruling us? What EU laws have been passed against our will?

 

[FatAlan]

Let us rephrase the question; What evidence is there we are a democracy? Do the elected listen and act in accord with the electorate? Do your local council do what you want? Does your MP or local councillor respond to the majority will? My experience is no. For instance a majority voted to leave. In a democratic system that would have been the end of the matter. However it is not is it.
To look at your question, puppet state a meme that does not really capture the state of things. Does the state act independently of the judiciary? Does the judiciary act independently from the state? Have we ceded powers to a foreign entity? I think no, no and yes. We now have an unelected bureaucracy dictating laws and the make up of our country without reference to the sovereign people. We the electorate says what does go on and what does not. But apparently not. Our government is on its' knees to a foreign power begging to be let out of class and like a worm on a hook. Why do not the government just say ta-da pal and get about the business we elected them for which is to leave?

So what would be wrong with a second vote on the issue now that people have had a chance to make a more informed decision?

 

[Baddegg]

How are people now more informed Alan? Are you suggesting the politicians and media are now all of a sudden telling the truth?
Surely if we keep voting on the same thing we are into the realms of Irish politics, for instance when they decided to use the euro.....after 3 votes! The eu got there in the end didn’t they....

 

[mattg4321]

We haven't left yet so how can we be more informed than before?

Maybe another vote in a decade or so.

The votes been and gone. Decided. Finished. We leave, end of story. If not expect massive consequences for the political establishment.

 

[telectrix]

Ok, how are they ruling us? What EU laws have been passed against our will?

1. vehicle emission laws
2. cornish pasties must be made in Cornwall. Cheddar cheese must be made in Cheddar. ( think this one got binned as it was too stupid even for MEPs.)
3. sneaky introducing kilometres instead of miles ( check the blue info. numbers on motorways, exactly 1/2 kilometre apart.
4. piling up perishable foodstuffs till it goes bad, just to keep the price up for inefficient froggie farmers.
5. eu court of human rights mean criminals have more rights than victims.

and cop this little lot. now who says we should remain?????
10 EU laws, rules or directives that could be scrapped after Brexit | Metro News - https://metro.co.uk/2017/03/29/10-eu-laws-that-could-get-scrapped-after-brexit-6541477/

 

[The Ghost]

Ok, how are they ruling us? What EU laws have been passed against our will?

I don't know if you are being devils advocate or really don't understand. You ask what laws. That is nowhere near the point of what has changed legally. This is a legally constitutional matter. Sovereignty has been ceded to foreign powers which is in itself a heinous criminal and political offence. It is treason. This was a criminal offence punishable by hanging by the neck until dead. More and more of the sovereignty has been usurped and traitorously ceded by the people in parliament who have a duty to act lawfully. We are in the position of having an unelected plutocracy ruling all of Europe. From The Reichsbank and Germany and France principally. I would say if you think that is ok go abroad to europe and live there. If you like living in a totalitarian state go live in europe. This is dictatorship undoing the sacrifice of millions to ensure we live in a democracy. So what a waste of life for those people to now see all signs of democracy gone or at least fast going.
All government institutions are no longer crown appointed they are corporations, the police, the courts even the government. They are subservient to Junk and Merkel and latterly now Macron they say jump our elected say how high sir! Can you not see constitutionally this is a massive betrayal of the electorate?
How about thought police, hate speech, selective culling of conservative sites on social media, gender agenda of various levels of deviance. The list could go on, this is what your children have to live with now, is that acceptable to you?

 

[The Ghost]

So what would be wrong with a second vote on the issue now that people have had a chance to make a more informed decision?

What would be wrong with that is the fact that in a democracy when we vote and the ayes have it that is final.
What will you do next, we vote for Mr or Mrs X for prime minister Mr X gets voted in, you want another election? No it does not not not work like that we all abide by the majority vote and get on with it. It is not up for dissection, insulting, patronising and so on the majority vote that is how it works! You lose a game of chess you lost get over it. Bow to the will of the majority.