To see or not to see

[drywax]

I work with kitchen installs and we currently use 2 different electricians with 2 very different views perhaps you kind sirs could enlighten me......

integrated appliances with the socket concealed in a cupboard does there have to be a visible fused switch above the worktop for easy isolation ?

My personal opinion is yes more from a saftey aspect ie tumble dryer catches fire need to switch it off but kind find the plug.

but can't find anything in the regs which confirms this

 

[paulrayner]

the regs say some where cant remember where that socket outlets etc should be fastend to the fabric of the building, different governing bodys say kitchen cabinets are considered fabric of the building because they are fitted and some dont. personally i dont have a problem with sockets etc in cuboards but not cooker & hob isolators. personally i hate seeing a long bank of fcu's on the wall just think if you have extractor, cabinet lights, oven, hob, washer, dish washer, tumble dryer, warming drawers, wine coolers, the new in thing electric drawers (yes im not kidding), lights for plinth etc . you could be running out of wall to put them all on. on the other hand at £35 per point you would double the cost buy putting in an fcu for every appliance socket outlet.

 

[Darkwood]

Also to consider is the need for access for maintenance and testing etc as ive seen kitchen fitters cover up existing sockets and even have them trapped by the cupboard dividing boards, i had a recent kitchen fitter forced to take his units apart to cut access hatches and redesign some aspects of it, all at his own expense but ive no hard feelings as i dont spend 20 yrs on site to be told by a kitchen fitter i dont know what im talking about.

 

[paulrayner]

NDQ16
Can accessories and electrical equipment such as socket-outlets and under-cupboard lighting be fixed to fitted kitchen units?

530.4.2​

NDA16
Yes, provided that they are securely fixed to rigid parts of the units that are not demountable or otherwise liable to be disturbed in normal service. However, care must be taken to comply with all the relevant requirements of BS 7671, including accessibility for inspection, testing and maintenance, and provision of adequate protection against damage (by impact or water for example) fo the accessories, equipment and associated wiring. Regulation 530.4.2 is not intended to preclude such common practice. This is intended to be clarified in the 17th Edition in due course.

​

Found this on the ESC website hope it helps

 

[pushrod]

integrated appliances with the socket concealed in a cupboard does there have to be a visible fused switch above the worktop for easy isolation ?

Hard wired appliance such as cooker - yes with DP switch and within 2 metres.

Plug in appliances - not sure, think it is an "aim" or "should" rather than a "must". If the plug can easily be reached without moving the appliance then no, but if the plug is behind the appliance or behind false backs in cupboards then i would say common sense/safety means a yes.

sorry not the definite answer you want.

 

[lockhes]

i always put mine on switched fused spurs

 

[drywax]

brilliant thanks guys also found this in the electricians guide to part p

- Socket outlets supplying appliances pushed under a worktop eg washers, dishwashers etc should be accessable when pulled out

- appliances built in to the kitchen (integrated appliances fridge/ freezer, dishwasher etc.) should be connected to a socket outlet, FCU readily accesible when the appliance is in place.

so my take on this is if you have a say 600 fully integrated washing machine next to a 600 base unit you can place the socket inside the cupboard as it would be readily accesible when the washing machine is fixed in place.

right or wrong ?

Also something else I picked upon is that a kitchen (according to the green part p book and as far as BS7671 is concerned) isn't a "Special Location" which I have been led to believe it was.

Comments welcome

 

[pushrod]

brilliant thanks guys also found this in the electricians guide to part p

- Socket outlets supplying appliances pushed under a worktop eg washers, dishwashers etc should be accessable when pulled out

- appliances built in to the kitchen (integrated appliances fridge/ freezer, dishwasher etc.) should be connected to a socket outlet, FCU readily accesible when the appliance is in place.

so my take on this is if you have a say 600 fully integrated washing machine next to a 600 base unit you can place the socket inside the cupboard as it would be readily accesible when the washing machine is fixed in place.

right or wrong ?

Also something else I picked upon is that a kitchen (according to the green part p book and as far as BS7671 is concerned) isn't a "Special Location" which I have been led to believe it was.

Comments welcome

I'd agree with everything you have said there - as i thought the requirements are "should" rather than "must".

 

[terry451]

thanks for the thread,
these are questions i have had with diffrent people over the years, and would welcome a firm answer

 

[Mac]

thanks for the thread,
these are questions i have had with diffrent people over the years, and would welcome a firm answer

I have put CCU and unswitched sockets in kitchen cupboards as this was the only place to put them.Switched fused spurs were above worktops for the appliances for isolation.I can't see a problem with this as long as they are accessible.