Trailer Sub-panel wiring and grounding?

[odSteve]

Hi, newbie here seeking advice.
I have a semi-truck box trailer I'm converting into a workshop. Wheels and suspension have been removed and it’s sitting on railroad ties on the ground. Because it’s not on a permanent foundation I'm not allowed to permanently wire it to the house.
I have chosen a 100 amp Square-D loadcenter breaker panel box for inside the trailer (the store's recommendation). And I've chosen a marine type of plug and socket to connect to the trailer with.

ParkPower Catalog - http://www.delzer.com/powerproducts/parkpowerfullline/18/#zoom=z
and
ParkPower Catalog - http://www.delzer.com/powerproducts/parkpowerfullline/14/#zoom=z

Scroll down on those link pages to see the 50 amp connection hardware I’m considering. My thinking is if it’s good enough to seal out ocean water, it should be good enough to seal against rain and snow.
My first of several questions:
Q1 - Do you agree with my choice of indoor loadcenter breaker box and outdoor trailer input power connection hardware?
I’ve never worked as an electrician – I’m just a self-taught DIY. I have a fair understanding of the theory of electricity but not the hardware to control it.
So my next question is should I only run three wires from the house (two hots and neutral) to the input of the trailer and just earth ground everything separately in the trailer (switches, panel, plugs, conduits, etc) to a couple earth ground rods? At my house the common neutrals and grounds are all tied together but I think it would be better to keep the common/neutral circuit separate from the earth ground connections in the trailer.
Q2 - Do you agree?
Q3 - Finally what size and type of wire do you recommend I run from a 240volt plug at my house to the input of the trailer?

It’s about a 120 ft outdoor run. The loadcenter panel box has a 100 amp master breaker in it. And my trailer is all aluminum (including the frame). The wall construction consist of aluminum sheets, insulation, plywood and on top I put a layer of drywall.

Thank you everyone for your help and advice. I want to do everything safely. I don’t want to plug in a band saw or other power tool and turn the trailer into an electrocution box. That could ruin my whole day . . .

 

[Megawatt]

Hi, newbie here seeking advice.
I have a semi-truck box trailer I'm converting into a workshop. Wheels and suspension have been removed and it’s sitting on railroad ties on the ground. Because it’s not on a permanent foundation I'm not allowed to permanently wire it to the house.
I have chosen a 100 amp Square-D loadcenter breaker panel box for inside the trailer (the store's recommendation). And I've chosen a marine type of plug and socket to connect to the trailer with.

ParkPower Catalog - http://www.delzer.com/powerproducts/parkpowerfullline/18/#zoom=z
and
ParkPower Catalog - http://www.delzer.com/powerproducts/parkpowerfullline/14/#zoom=z

Scroll down on those link pages to see the 50 amp connection hardware I’m considering. My thinking is if it’s good enough to seal out ocean water, it should be good enough to seal against rain and snow.
My first of several questions:
Q1 - Do you agree with my choice of indoor loadcenter breaker box and outdoor trailer input power connection hardware?
I’ve never worked as an electrician – I’m just a self-taught DIY. I have a fair understanding of the theory of electricity but not the hardware to control it.
So my next question is should I only run three wires from the house (two hots and neutral) to the input of the trailer and just earth ground everything separately in the trailer (switches, panel, plugs, conduits, etc) to a couple earth ground rods? At my house the common neutrals and grounds are all tied together but I think it would be better to keep the common/neutral circuit separate from the earth ground connections in the trailer.
Q2 - Do you agree?
Q3 - Finally what size and type of wire do you recommend I run from a 240volt plug at my house to the input of the trailer?

It’s about a 120 ft outdoor run. The loadcenter panel box has a 100 amp master breaker in it. And my trailer is all aluminum (including the frame). The wall construction consist of aluminum sheets, insulation, plywood and on top I put a layer of drywall.

Thank you everyone for your help and advice. I want to do everything safely. I don’t want to plug in a band saw or other power tool and turn the trailer into an electrocution box. That could ruin my whole day . . .

First off is you traitor convex and what do you mean about ocean water ?

 

[odSteve]

First off is you traitor convex and what do you mean about ocean water ?

I apologize, Sir, I don't know what you mean by convex. This is a picture of exactly what my trailer looks like except the wheels, suspension, lower part of the rear bumper and front landing gear supports have been removed so the truck trailer box sits almost on the ground on rail road ties.

Truck Transport: This is a picture of an old trailer on the back of a semi truck - https://www.featurepics.com/online/Truck-Trailer-Picture374168.aspx

And I was told that the electrical connection hardware in the links above (plug and socket) is what ships use when they come to dock and they want to connect to electricity. So that hardware should seal against the occasional splash of ocean water. But, for all I know, that might be just a wild story made up by the salesman. I don't own a ship, so I don't know what is used. That's why I'm here seeking professional opinions on the hardware I should use.
Thank you, Sir, for your reply.

 

[Megawatt]

I apologize, Sir, I don't know what you mean by convex. This is a picture of exactly what my trailer looks like except the wheels, suspension, lower part of the rear bumper and front landing gear supports have been removed so the truck trailer box sits almost on the ground on rail road ties.

Truck Transport: This is a picture of an old trailer on the back of a semi truck - https://www.featurepics.com/online/Truck-Trailer-Picture374168.aspx

And I was told that the electrical connection hardware in the links above (plug and socket) is what ships use when they come to dock and they want to connect to electricity. So that hardware should seal against the occasional splash of ocean water. But, for all I know, that might be just a wild story made up by the salesman. I don't own a ship, so I don't know what is used. That's why I'm here seeking professional opinions on the hardware I should use.
Thank you, Sir, for your reply.

@odSteve first of al what does your panel on your house look like, you don’t need 100 amp service from what I have heard, can you take that 100 amp panel back and get a main lug only 60 amp 12 circuit panel. I need to know if you have spares left in your existing panel. Correct me if I’m wrong because I don’t know what your plan is for the box trailer as far as equipment. What you have now is a 100 amp panel with a 100 amp breaker and then you are going to have to buy another 100 amp breaker to feed the trailer. If you take my advice on this you can save your self a lot of money and that plug is not cheap then we will talk about bonding the aluminum trailer and the plug. Last would told you couldn’t hard wire your trailer from your house and I know California has different rules somewhat but they still go by the NEC. Take pictures of your outside panel and send them to me

 

[odSteve]

Hi,
Every space is filled with 20, 30, or 50 amp breakers in the panel breaker box on the house. There are no empty spaces. So I will need another breaker box with some type of T-connectors to the wires at the bottom of the meter or top of the house breaker box assembly for this additional house breaker box.
< I feel the current box is over loaded as some breakers have more than one wire going to them, and in total the breakers add up to much more than 200 amps. But I recently replaced a couple of the 20 amp breakers with 15 amp breakers because it just seemed to me the wiring in those rooms was to small to support 20 amps continually. Was I just being unnecessarily over-cautious as it did pass inspection before I bought the house? >

The master breaker on the house breaker box is 200 amps. I did not take the cover off but there is no identifying information on the outside of the box. However the master breaker did have a sticker with the following information on it:
Eaton Circuit Breaker
CSR 25k
200 amp 2 pole
120 / 240 volts 60 Hz 40*C
cat. CSR2200N
Style 7803C07G83

Do you need more information on the house breaker box? It will be a few days before I can get pictures of it.

As for my shop trailer, the only 220 volt machine I will be using is the compressor, which can be rewired to run on 110 volts if necessary. Everything else, such as the band saw, drill press, table saw etc all use 110 volts. Someday I'd like to buy a small welder, but that's down the road.

Thank you, Sir, for your help.

 

[Megawatt]

Hi,
Every space is filled with 20, 30, or 50 amp breakers in the panel breaker box on the house. There are no empty spaces. So I will need another breaker box with some type of T-connectors to the wires at the bottom of the meter or top of the house breaker box assembly for this additional house breaker box.
< I feel the current box is over loaded as some breakers have more than one wire going to them, and in total the breakers add up to much more than 200 amps. But I recently replaced a couple of the 20 amp breakers with 15 amp breakers because it just seemed to me the wiring in those rooms was to small to support 20 amps continually. Was I just being unnecessarily over-cautious as it did pass inspection before I bought the house? >

The master breaker on the house breaker box is 200 amps. I did not take the cover off but there is no identifying information on the outside of the box. However the master breaker did have a sticker with the following information on it:
Eaton Circuit Breaker
CSR 25k
200 amp 2 pole
120 / 240 volts 60 Hz 40*C
cat. CSR2200N
Style 7803C07G83

Do you need more information on the house breaker box? It will be a few days before I can get pictures of it.

As for my shop trailer, the only 220 volt machine I will be using is the compressor, which can be rewired to run on 110 volts if necessary. Everything else, such as the band saw, drill press, table saw etc all use 110 volts. Someday I'd like to buy a small welder, but that's down the road.

Thank you, Sir, for your help.

@odSteve it sounds to me we have a dilemma, to answer one question is you can’t add up all the breakers because it will add up more than 200 amps. You have what is called the calculated load which the breakers are sized then you have what is call the connected load which means how many amps it will pull One option is do an upgrade to your service and buy the same brand name just ask for 40 circuits which is the most that is allowed. You can also sub feed a let’s just say 60 amp 12 or 16 circuit panel if they have a 16 circuit panel. That’s the only 2 choices you have and 2 wires under one breaker is a big fat no no. As far as you replacing the 20 amp for 15 amp there’s nothing to worry about if they start tripping change them back to 20 amp

 

[odSteve]

Hello Sir,
Are you saying to upgrade my home panel circuit breaker box to a second 12 or 16 circuit sub panel? That's kind of what I was thinking I needed to do. Seems like the easiest thing would be to get a Y connector for each of the wires coming from the meter and just route the additional wires to another small breaker box. That would give me a lot more circuit possibilities than I would ever need. Seems like most breaker box loadcenters come with a master breaker. If I get one with a 100 amp breaker then everything will be equal with the Square-D panel I bought for the trailer.
Other than some LED lights, a vent fan and perhaps a small space heater of 1200 to 1500 watts, all other current draws in the trailer will be very intermittent, so I'm not worried about overloading the line from the power pole to the house top of the meter.
So my next step is to get another sub panel for the house, some large gauge wire and Y connectors, correct?

From my first post I think you can tell I was working backwards from the trailer to the house, and not from the house to the trailer.

When I bought the house two years ago and converted the two prong plugs to 3 prong outlet plugs I noticed the wiring just looked very old to me. So I changed the breakers to a couple of rooms from 20 to 15 amp breakers. I suspect the previous owner put in 20 amp breakers because he ran window air conditioners. He took the window air conditioners with him because I would not pay extra for them. I do not plan on buying any. I've never had any 15 amp breaker trip.

 

[Megawatt]

Hello Sir,
Are you saying to upgrade my home panel circuit breaker box to a second 12 or 16 circuit sub panel? That's kind of what I was thinking I needed to do. Seems like the easiest thing would be to get a Y connector for each of the wires coming from the meter and just route the additional wires to another small breaker box. That would give me a lot more circuit possibilities than I would ever need. Seems like most breaker box loadcenters come with a master breaker. If I get one with a 100 amp breaker then everything will be equal with the Square-D panel I bought for the trailer.
Other than some LED lights, a vent fan and perhaps a small space heater of 1200 to 1500 watts, all other current draws in the trailer will be very intermittent, so I'm not worried about overloading the line from the power pole to the house top of the meter.
So my next step is to get another sub panel for the house, some large gauge wire and Y connectors, correct?

From my first post I think you can tell I was working backwards from the trailer to the house, and not from the house to the trailer.

When I bought the house two years ago and converted the two prong plugs to 3 prong outlet plugs I noticed the wiring just looked very old to me. So I changed the breakers to a couple of rooms from 20 to 15 amp breakers. I suspect the previous owner put in 20 amp breakers because he ran window air conditioners. He took the window air conditioners with him because I would not pay extra for them. I do not plan on buying any. I've never had any 15 amp breaker trip.

Is there any way you could take a picture of your existing panel so I can see all the breakers. Some of them 20 amp breakers are for refrigerator, microwave, dish washer, and washing machine. They need to be 20 amp so don’t change them all out to 15 amps. I’m going to try and walk you through this project. Please don’t bother the meter. Does your panel outside have a meter built into the panel or do you have a meter by it self and a panel beside it ?

 

[odSteve]

Thank you, Sir.
It will take a few days for me to get someone to take a picture of my house breaker box panel. But until then, this appears to be exactly what my house breaker panel looks like:

Eaton - MBE48B200BTS, Meter Mains - With Distribution, Meters & Accessories, Metering & Temporary Power - Platt Electric Supply - https://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Meters-Accessories-Meter-Mains-With-Distribution/Eaton/MBE48B200BTS/product.aspx?zpid=6902

It may not be this exact model, but it sure looks like it. I've called a friend and hopefully he can come out this weekend to take pictures of the actual breakers in the panel. But as you can see in the link above, there is a lot of room to put some type of Y wire connectors on the wires at the bottom of the meter and run the additional wires to another load center breaker box.

I've only changed three breakers to 15 amp - the living room breaker, a bedroom breaker and a hallway breaker. I've left all the other breakers exactly the way they were when I got the house two years ago.

Thank you, Sir, for your help in this project. It is sincerely appreciated.

 

[Megawatt]

Thank you, Sir.
It will take a few days for me to get someone to take a picture of my house breaker box panel. But until then, this appears to be exactly what my house breaker panel looks like:

Eaton - MBE48B200BTS, Meter Mains - With Distribution, Meters & Accessories, Metering & Temporary Power - Platt Electric Supply - https://www.platt.com/platt-electric-supply/Meters-Accessories-Meter-Mains-With-Distribution/Eaton/MBE48B200BTS/product.aspx?zpid=6902

It may not be this exact model, but it sure looks like it. I've called a friend and hopefully he can come out this weekend to take pictures of the actual breakers in the panel. But as you can see in the link above, there is a lot of room to put some type of Y wire connectors on the wires at the bottom of the meter and run the additional wires to another load center breaker box.

I've only changed three breakers to 15 amp - the living room breaker, a bedroom breaker and a hallway breaker. I've left all the other breakers exactly the way they were when I got the house two years ago.

Thank you, Sir, for your help in this project. It is sincerely appreciated.

I look forward to hearing from you, it’s just an 8 circuit panel could you not buy a 40 circuit panel to plan for the future

 

[odSteve]

Hi,
I just counted the breakers and it appears to me I do have a 40 circuit panel but a lot of the breakers are over-sized and connected together and take up two spaces. I forgot to add to my previous post that although my panel looks like the one in the link above, it has space for a lot more circuit breakers than shown in the link above.
I hope to get pictures to you this weekend if it doesn't rain or snow.
Thank you.

 

[Megawatt]

Hi,
I just counted the breakers and it appears to me I do have a 40 circuit panel but a lot of the breakers are over-sized and connected together and take up two spaces. I forgot to add to my previous post that although my panel looks like the one in the link above, it has space for a lot more circuit breakers than shown in the link above.
I hope to get pictures to you this weekend if it doesn't rain or snow.
Thank you.

.
@ofsteve I just wanted to know if you had space for another 2 pole breaker to feed your trailer
[automerge]1569597519[/automerge]

Hi,
I just counted the breakers and it appears to me I do have a 40 circuit panel but a lot of the breakers are over-sized and connected together and take up two spaces. I forgot to add to my previous post that although my panel looks like the one in the link above, it has space for a lot more circuit breakers than shown in the link above.
I hope to get pictures to you this weekend if it doesn't rain or snow.
Thank you.

Do not buy another panel with the meter base built in it. You should buy a 60 amp panel with at least 12 circuits they reason for the lower amperage at 60 amps is because your plug is only rated at 50 amps

 

[odSteve]

Hi, I've always wondered, does that mean the plug is rated for 50 amps continuous or 50 amps peak spike or surge?
And when I see a 220 volt breaker rated for 50 amps. as an example, does that mean each arm is rated at 50 amps or only the total breaker is rated at 50 amps and each leg of the 220 volt breaker is rated at 25 amps? No one has definitely answered these questions I have.
Thank you.

 

[Megawatt]

Hi, I've always wondered, does that mean the plug is rated for 50 amps continuous or 50 amps peak spike or surge?
And when I see a 220 volt breaker rated for 50 amps. as an example, does that mean each arm is rated at 50 amps or only the total breaker is rated at 50 amps and each leg of the 220 volt breaker is rated at 25 amps? No one has definitely answered these questions I have.
Thank you.

When you have a 50 amp breaker and you know your plug is rated 50 amps if you put an amp probe on either wire and you will get 50 amps the current does not split. In the real world you probably pull 35 to 40 amps and that is everything running. But an occasional garage maybe 25 amps. You don’t have nothing to worry about
[automerge]1569638079[/automerge]

When you have a 50 amp breaker and you know your plug is rated 50 amps if you put an amp probe on either wire and you will get 50 amps the current does not split. In the real world you probably pull 35 to 40 amps and that is everything running. But an occasional garage maybe 25 amps. You don’t have nothing to worry about

You would consider it at continuous duty
[automerge]1569639598[/automerge]

When you have a 50 amp breaker and you know your plug is rated 50 amps if you put an amp probe on either wire and you will get 50 amps the current does not split. In the real world you probably pull 35 to 40 amps and that is everything running. But an occasional garage maybe 25 amps. You don’t have nothing to worry about
[automerge]1569638079[/automerge]

You would consider it at continuous duty

The breaker itself senses heat, when you have current you have heat at 50 amps on start up of everything no problems but you don’t want to pull 50 consistently you will feel heat. If your not sure feel the plug it should not be warm or hot to the touch

 

[DPG]

Do not connect an ammeter directly across live/hot and neutral!!