two ccu.s

[brucelee]

hi everyone,
just wanted to ask a question my brother had a extension built out of his garage knocked wall down between kitchen and garage so its now onehe had it done a couple of years ago the elecy he got fitted a new 12 way ccu which only has on it the sockets and lights for the new half of kitchen the old half and rest of house on old wylex when i visited him recently i noticed how rough it looks wires coming from all directions not in trunking not clipped direct to surface also noticed he fitted henley block to split tails original tails have bare excessive neutral conductors the main water bond only looks like 6mm and looks like there is damage through burning some of insulation missing throughout the length well the bit i can see from meter cupboard he should have upgraded this to 10mm at the time shouldnt he and with half of sockets on one ccu and half on non rcd wylex fuseboard he should have fitted dual voltage labels as there is a potential of 400v between one half of sckts and other side do you think he is liable and should it be changed so all on new ccu ad fit 10mm bond i recently qualified so i can carry this work out for him i am not set up yet self employed so do i need pli to complete this work will i have to notify labc as im not installing new circuits only transferring if all tests ok or do i still have to notify because its work on ccu i have 17thand part p any advice would be helpful cheers

 

[Darkwood]

Questions, does he have 2 or 3 phase incomming to house and old and new board are on different phases, sockets over different phases only require marking if they are within reach of each other, or a lightswitch with 400v present.
If he hasn't extended or altered the existing installation then hes not liable for its condition, although he could recommend a PIR, The bonding again he should have checked it was ok but as far as im aware he can explain its undersized and recommend an upgrade but as long as its still effective i dont think he has to upgrade it, but id would have included it in the price for the job, i may be corrected on this point though.

 

[brucelee]

no single phase sockets are within reach of each other so because tails are only split with henley block its still same phase so its ok in it i was getting a little mixed up but if bonding looks melted should he not of changed or at least told my bruv so then he would have okayed it

 

[Sintra]

6mm main bond may be ok.

For TN-S or TT systems the csa of main protective bonding conductors must be a minimum of 6mm and not be less than half the csa of the main earthing conductor. 544.1.1

 

[brucelee]

think its tn-c-s but will check i going on saturday to sort his alarm

 

[Sintra]

think its tn-c-s but will check i going on saturday to sort his alarm

For a PME system the csa of the main bonding conductors must not be less than that given in Table 54.8 ie a 10mm protective bonding conductor for a neutral conductor of 35mm or less. 544.1.1

 

[Darkwood]

no single phase sockets are within reach of each other so because tails are only split with henley block its still same phase so its ok in it i was getting a little mixed up but if bonding looks melted should he not of changed or at least told my bruv so then he would have okayed it

I believe Sintra's kindly answered the bonding size question but see if their is any plumbing near the melted earth, it could have been the plumbers lack of caring that melted the sheath and whos says it was in this condition 2 years ago, hes work might be untidy to say the least but be careful about pointing fingers if your not 100% certain , well thats if you intend to contact this electrician.

 

[brucelee]

it was left like that no plumbing near it, so is it ok if i do work and do i still have to notify as its work on a ccu even though i am installing no new circuits only transferring if all ok after tests i know its 10mm for p.m.e cheers though sintra

 

[Eggster71]

it was left like that no plumbing near it, so is it ok if i do work and do i still have to notify as its work on a ccu even though i am installing no new circuits only transferring if all ok after tests i know its 10mm for p.m.e cheers though sintra

From what I gather you'll be losing the old wylex in favour of the modern board?
If so then I believe it will need to be certified, yes, and certainly an Installation Cert issued as you are changing the nature of the affected circuits. Another reason I'd recommend a FULL test is that this could be the last opportunity for these circuits to be tested it their lifetime. You can bet your life there will be loose connections all over the shop, very likely a whole load of unidentified switchlines, unsleeved CPCs and probably some heat damage to conductors, particularly if there are any enclosed type light fittings. There's also the possibility of radials paired in 30A fuse ways.
Also don't forget you'll be needing a second RCD in the board to avoid nuisance tripping, either that or suffer RCBOs and seriously reduce the available space within it.
Remember, as well as pride in your work etc you need to cover your back these days!

 

[patricklondon]

notify building control before works starts. be v thorough in checking all of installation and testing as eggster says and this job can count as one major then only one minor job eg spur at seperate but nearby address is required to get registered with niceic etc. 2Mill insurance, 17th ed, calibrated full test kit then your off

 

[brucelee]

cheers,
i will inspect and test everything do i use a full electrical installation do i class it as a alteration as for using it as a major install i have 17th bs7671 and a megger 1552 with calibrated test sheet,o.s.g,gn3, you know when they say check at known socket regulary to prove calibration do they mean do full test sequence on that socket ring and record results eg continuity of ring main,insulation,polarity,ze,zs,pfc.rcd test is this right if i am going p.i.r.testing a existing install whats the best sequence and is there anything else i need ie part p approved doc and can i just print a copy off as ive downloaded them all and test sheets and stuff do i need a complaints procedure and how do i write one do i also need a health and safety policy and electricity at work 1989 also i need a voltage detector ant ideas which to use ive been looking at fluke t140 and t120 anything else i need to do any advice would be grateful cheers guys

 

[patricklondon]

Domestic Installer Scheme (Part P) - NICEIC Schemes - Approved contractor scheme - NICEIC Group

http://www.niceic.com/library/B6003-130309-Rules-for-Registration-of-DI.PDF

great site for test kit Fluke T5-1000 Electrical Tester. Buy online or call

 

[Eggster71]

cheers,
i will inspect and test everything do i use a full electrical installation do i class it as a alteration as for using it as a major install i have 17th bs7671 and a megger 1552 with calibrated test sheet,o.s.g,gn3, you know when they say check at known socket regulary to prove calibration do they mean do full test sequence on that socket ring and record results eg continuity of ring main,insulation,polarity,ze,zs,pfc.rcd test is this right if i am going p.i.r.testing a existing install whats the best sequence and is there anything else i need ie part p approved doc and can i just print a copy off as ive downloaded them all and test sheets and stuff do i need a complaints procedure and how do i write one do i also need a health and safety policy and electricity at work 1989 also i need a voltage detector ant ideas which to use ive been looking at fluke t140 and t120 anything else i need to do any advice would be grateful cheers guys

I have sockets near my CU, one is RCD protected, the other is not, I test IPF and Zs at the non RCD one then RCD times and RCDsensitive Zs at the other. I also have a few resistors, different values, 0.5ohm, 20 ohm, 500ohm and 2Mohm or there abouts. These readings are recorded monthly so I have an ongoing record for my meters. Alternatively you can buy check boxes which have all the functions built in, like the Kewtechnic ones here: Check Boxes
As for the sequence of tests its in your On Site Guide.
You can download NICEIC sample forms from their website which have all the stuff on, alternatively I think you can download the IEE model form, as in the OSG and regs book from their site. Beware though if you go for NICEIC they don't like that form as it does not have as much info on it, such as the individual ring continuity tests!

 

[Spudnik]

Test equipment is only required to be calibrated once a year with a traceable certificate.

The NIC however like to see check boxes, monthly test sheets etc etc.

However, they do say that provided you do keep a regular check then there is no need to have them calibrated annually.

 

[brucelee]

all my house is protected by rcd so how do i go about checking calibration as i thought you need a unprotected socket bit of a double standard.when you consider they all have to be protected dont they