Two way switch problem

[Jiten]

Hi guys

Wanted a little help.

Have a two way switch for the landing.

I have 2 twin and earth wires coming into the ceiling rose.

I've tested the wires in the ceiling rose and found no permenant line.

I took the switch apart and tested the conductors at the back. One twin and earth (red and black) and one extra red cable and earth.

The one extra red cable was fed into Com, the line cable (which is permently live) was in L1 and the black cable in l2. I've marked this wire to indicate this is the wire coming from the switch.

The other wire coming in is to feed an additional light which comes on at the same time.

The light is not working, any ideas to what could have hapoen as this was working before. Any help would be great guys

 

[SJD]

The description sounds a bit like a typical 60's/70's house where the landing supply is fed to a downstairs switch, then there is a 2-core cable to the upstairs switch, and a single core to the light fitting. Possibly the single red/earth goes to a junction box in the loft, where it meets up with a N (hopefully not borrowed) and is fed to the light?

So are you sure the Line L1 at the upstairs switch is permanent live, and not switched from downstairs?

And what caused the light to stop working - has anything been changed (light, switch, etc)? Or has someone been in the loft dragging out the Xmas tree and pulled a cable out of a junction box?

 

[Jiten]

The description sounds a bit like a typical 60's/70's house where the landing supply is fed to a downstairs switch, then there is a 2-core cable to the upstairs switch, and a single core to the light fitting. Possibly the single red/earth goes to a junction box in the loft, where it meets up with a N (hopefully not borrowed) and is fed to the light?

So are you sure the Line L1 at the upstairs switch is permanent live, and not switched from downstairs?

And what caused the light to stop working - has anything been changed (light, switch, etc)? Or has someone been in the loft dragging out the Xmas tree and pulled a cable out of a junction box?

What I was told was that the light fitting came off the ceiling due to moving furniture.

I can't rule out weither it is a permenant live as I didn't really test downstairs. But I am fairly confident as no1 had touched the switch downstairs. You are correct about the age of the house also. However there was an earth wire that was tucked away in the ceiling when I looked to where the wires were. I assumed it may have been some form of bonding bit it was definelty a 1m cable, but from the single red and earth at the switch, the earth cabke was connected to the earth terminal. I checked another switch an light they had red in l1 and switch wire (black) in common. None of the lights had a loop in and out

 

[SJD]

If the light has been pulled off the ceiling, quite possibly there is a disconnected cable in the loft, at least I'd check there first.

 

[Jiten]

If the light has been pulled off the ceiling, quite possibly there is a disconnected cable in the loft, at least I'd check there first.

The issue is that there is laminate upstairs and they do not want it lifting up. I have advised this is the best way. If not can only to a fcu with 3 amp and feed it that way, but means no 2 way lighting or bite the bullet and start lifting.

But surly there should be a permenant live and neutral from supply in order for the light to function?

 

[Marcus Vaughan]

Another vote for two way two wire switching - so no permanent lives expected in switch or light.

From what you are saying there is single core and earth at the switch but twin and earth at the light - so I suppose there must be a junction box in there somewhere to get a neutral to the light?

 

[SparkyAndGeorge]

Could be the old school method of two way switching. The single red would be the perm live from the previous point and the black and red would be the strappers to the 2nd switch. The single red from the 2nd switch would be your switched live to the light fitting. Can you post some clear pictures of the connections behind the switches and the light fittings

 

[Jiten]

Could be the old school method of two way switching. The single red would be the perm live from the previous point and the black and red would be the strappers to the 2nd switch. The single red from the 2nd switch would be your switched live to the light fitting. Can you post some clear pictures of the connections behind the switches and the light fittings

I thought the same, unfortunately I'm not at the property till next week. The single red and earth had no current there. But the twin and earth were wired to l1 and l2 down stairs also. I tried every method I know, even had the switch working for the ceiling rose, I had a continuity tester to prove the power was coming on by switching the switch, but no light.

The second wire was also attached to switch line and neutral. Made no difference. So was positive wires were missing. Unless the can operate without the perm live and neutral

 

[telectrix]

your perm. L is in C on downstairs switch, L1 and L2 link to L1 and L2 upstairs switch with the T/E strappers. then C of the upstairs switch is the S/L to the light. the N for the light comes from the upstairs circuit.

 

[Jiten]

your perm. L is in C on downstairs switch, L1 and L2 link to L1 and L2 upstairs switch with the T/E strappers. then C of the upstairs switch is the S/L to the light. the N for the light comes from the upstairs circuit.

I did that method, put L into l1 and N into L2 feom T/E then put single L into com and earth into earth terminal. No power went to the ceiling rose when I switched on and off. But now you have mentioned that, it's quiet possible that I have got L1 and L2 the wrong way round......

What I did was check the ceiling rose for a perm live when I first got there, no power. The switch had not been tampered about as it was still stuck on the wall paper.

One of the two wires coming fri. The ceiling rose is L and N for another light to come in at the same time. So potentially the L1 and L2 from downstairs to upstairs is the only wire coming into the ceiling rose.

This is why I thought a wire is missing.

 

[PeakSteve]

The issue is that there is laminate upstairs and they do not want it lifting up. I have advised this is the best way. If not can only to a fcu with 3 amp and feed it that way, but means no 2 way lighting or bite the bullet and start lifting.

But surly there should be a permenant live and neutral from supply in order for the light to function?

You need to establish what is at both switches.
It sounds like red1 is the Live Strapper (L1), black is the Switched Live strapper (L2), and the other red is the Common strapper. So at the light, one cable is probably the live supply & Neutral, the other is (red) Live to switches (L1), and (black) Switched Live to light (from L2).
Quite possibly there is an interconnection at an inacessible JB, but no reason to believe that is suddenly not working.