Understanding electrics three phase. | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss Understanding electrics three phase. in the Electrical Course Trainees Only area at ElectriciansForums.net

Wilson12

-
Trainee
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
133
Reaction score
3
Location
London
Hello just a question if your supplying a three phase motor.
Say each phase draws 9amps
1.5mm or definitely 2.5mm2 swa will be sufficient to carry the load for each core but then there will be 27 amps returning on the same neutral so my question is with three phase why is the neutral not sized bigger
 
For most 3 phase applications, the loads are well balanced (typically motors) and don't themselves need the neutral (it's not used in either star or delta connections - except sometimes for the control gear).
 
First you need to know that the three phases are not all in-phase. There is a time lag/phase shift between the peak of Brown and Black, and similarly between Black and Grey. It is because in a three phase alternator, the coil to generate the Brown voltage is say at the 12 o'clock and that for Black and Grey are at 4 0'clock and 8 o'clock. So when they rotate together on the rotor axis there is a constant phase shift albeit they all generate the same sinusoidal waveform.

In terms of angular degrees, the 12 0'clock could be called 0 degrees, then the other two moving around clockwise would be 120 and 240 degrees.

These phase voltages drive the currents that flow. If the loads on each phase are the same then the currents will be the same magnitude but again time/phase shifted by 4 hours/120 degrees.

Here is the exercise for you:

If you take any position of the axis at a particular time (say 90 or 3 0'clock) degrees for Brown) and work out sin 90 and add it too sin(90 + 120) and sin (90 + 240) - the other two phases you will find that they answer is zero. Try replacing 90 by any angle x between 0 and 360 degrees - whatever angle x you pick, if the load is balanced all the phase currents will sum to zero. So for a balanced load the neutral does not carry any current - for an unbalanced load it carries the residual current which is that current which is left over after the parts of the phase currents which do add up to zero.

It is easier to see this using phasors/vectors. Take a look at:


I have only quickly looked at this youtube clip but there are others if you google 'three phase neutral currents' or something similar.
 
With 3 phase, the current returns via the phases.
L1 returns via L2, L2 returns via L3 and L3 returns via L1.
The neutral would only ever carry unbalanced current that for some reason was unable to return via one of the phases.

If you were to remove one of the phases, L3 for instance.
You would get current from L1 returning via L2, current from L2 would not be able to return via L3, as it’s been removed, so would return via the neutral.
There would be no current on L3 to return via L1 as L3 has been removed.

If you now remove L2, then you will in effect have a single phase supply with the current from L1 returning via the neutral.

As the supply current is 9A per phase, there will only ever be 9A to return via the neutral.
 
previous posts have been far more detailed but, to put it in a nutshell. a balanced load, such as a motor, working normally, there won't be any significant neutral current.
 

Reply to Understanding electrics three phase. in the Electrical Course Trainees Only area at ElectriciansForums.net

News and Offers from Sponsors

  • Article
Join us at electronica 2024 in Munich! Since 1964, electronica has been the premier event for technology enthusiasts and industry professionals...
    • Like
Replies
0
Views
369
  • Sticky
  • Article
Good to know thanks, one can never have enough places to source parts from!
Replies
4
Views
931
  • Article
OFFICIAL SPONSORS These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then...
Replies
0
Views
1K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top