Unfinished basement stairs light switches

[wiringinillinois]

Hi All,

I am rewiring my basement, which includes the stairwell that leads from the main floor kitchen down to the basement. Here is an idea of the layout:

From the main floor kitchen, I open a door to the basement stairwell. I take 3 steps down to a small landing. If I go right, I go down 5 more steps into the entry of the unfinished basement. If I go left, there is a door that opens to the back yard.

The original plan was to put a 3-way switch at the top and bottom of the stairs to illuminate the stairwell. Easy! But now I'm wondering if I need a 4-way installation, instead. As I read it, code requires that there is also a switch to control the stairwell lighting in the interior of the house at the back door opening. Even though it's so close to the switch at the top step.

I rarely enter the house from this back door, so I didn't think of it in my original plans. But if code requires one then will do.

I'm thinking this is covered here: 210.70(A)(2)(C):

Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entry way, to control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between floor levels has six risers or more.

Wasn't sure if there were any exceptions for an unfinished basement stairwell, but the more I think about it the more I assume I'll need a 4-way set up.

Any insight? Or ideas? Like if I install a motion sensor can I forego a third switch? The area is awkward and will require surface mounting with EMT and metal boxes so was trying to avoid the visual clutter. It's a lot of switches.

Since neither section of the stairs has 6 risers I'm not positive if I'd need a switch at the back door since the nearest switch would be just 3 steps up (or one step and a reach). But want to do the best thing for anyone, not just myself.

Thank you!

 

[littlespark]

Not knowing the American standards, or code…. what about no switches at all and only using sensors?

Positioned in such a way to cover the two upper doors and the bottom of the stairs?

Have a normal switch for the basement


@Megawatt can advise as he is based in US

 

[Megawatt]

Hi All,

I am rewiring my basement, which includes the stairwell that leads from the main floor kitchen down to the basement. Here is an idea of the layout:

From the main floor kitchen, I open a door to the basement stairwell. I take 3 steps down to a small landing. If I go right, I go down 5 more steps into the entry of the unfinished basement. If I go left, there is a door that opens to the back yard.

The original plan was to put a 3-way switch at the top and bottom of the stairs to illuminate the stairwell. Easy! But now I'm wondering if I need a 4-way installation, instead. As I read it, code requires that there is also a switch to control the stairwell lighting in the interior of the house at the back door opening. Even though it's so close to the switch at the top step.

I rarely enter the house from this back door, so I didn't think of it in my original plans. But if code requires one then will do.

I'm thinking this is covered here: 210.70(A)(2)(C):

Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entry way, to control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between floor levels has six risers or more.

Wasn't sure if there were any exceptions for an unfinished basement stairwell, but the more I think about it the more I assume I'll need a 4-way set up.

Any insight? Or ideas? Like if I install a motion sensor can I forego a third switch? The area is awkward and will require surface mounting with EMT and metal boxes so was trying to avoid the visual clutter. It's a lot of switches.

Since neither section of the stairs has 6 risers I'm not positive if I'd need a switch at the back door since the nearest switch would be just 3 steps up (or one step and a reach). But want to do the best thing for anyone, not just myself.

Thank you!

Not knowing the American standards, or code…. what about no switches at all and only using sensors?

Positioned in such a way to cover the two upper doors and the bottom of the stairs?

Have a normal switch for the basement


@Megawatt can advise as he is based in US

Hi All,

I am rewiring my basement, which includes the stairwell that leads from the main floor kitchen down to the basement. Here is an idea of the layout:

From the main floor kitchen, I open a door to the basement stairwell. I take 3 steps down to a small landing. If I go right, I go down 5 more steps into the entry of the unfinished basement. If I go left, there is a door that opens to the back yard.

The original plan was to put a 3-way switch at the top and bottom of the stairs to illuminate the stairwell. Easy! But now I'm wondering if I need a 4-way installation, instead. As I read it, code requires that there is also a switch to control the stairwell lighting in the interior of the house at the back door opening. Even though it's so close to the switch at the top step.

I rarely enter the house from this back door, so I didn't think of it in my original plans. But if code requires one then will do.

I'm thinking this is covered here: 210.70(A)(2)(C):

Where one or more lighting outlet(s) are installed for interior stairways, there shall be a wall switch at each floor level, and landing level that includes an entry way, to control the lighting outlet(s) where the stairway between floor levels has six risers or more.

Wasn't sure if there were any exceptions for an unfinished basement stairwell, but the more I think about it the more I assume I'll need a 4-way set up.

Any insight? Or ideas? Like if I install a motion sensor can I forego a third switch? The area is awkward and will require surface mounting with EMT and metal boxes so was trying to avoid the visual clutter. It's a lot of switches.

Since neither section of the stairs has 6 risers I'm not positive if I'd need a switch at the back door since the nearest switch would be just 3 steps up (or one step and a reach). But want to do the best thing for anyone, not just myself.

Thank you!

my friend all you need by code is just to light up your stairs at the top. You don’t have to have a 3 way switch at the bottom of the stairs but you can add one for convenience and you do not want to add a 4 way switch. As @littlespark mentioned a motion sensor would probably be the best and not requiring a lot of wiring. Good luck with your project

 

[wiringinillinois]

my friend all you need by code is just to light up your stairs at the top. You don’t have to have a 3 way switch at the bottom of the stairs but you can add one for convenience and you do not want to add a 4 way switch. As @littlespark mentioned a motion sensor would probably be the best and not requiring a lot of wiring. Good luck with your project

Thanks to you and @littlespark ! I was hoping this was the case. Sometimes I don't interpret the code literally enough.

I've settled on a motion sensor 3-way switch at the top of the stairs that can also be controlled manually. It will capture motion from the back door easily. Since the stairs are an L-shape it won't capture motion from the bottom of the stairs.

I'll add a regular 3-way switch at the bottom of the stairs just because I can do it easily and might as well. I have a double gang box for it and already have a 3-way that'll work with the motion sensor switch. I'll put it in the switch box with the switch for the basement lights.

I appreciate your help! I am in an electrical program but don't have class until Monday. Wanted to knock this out today. Now I can!

 

[Megawatt]

Thanks to you and @littlespark ! I was hoping this was the case. Sometimes I don't interpret the code literally enough.

I've settled on a motion sensor 3-way switch at the top of the stairs that can also be controlled manually. It will capture motion from the back door easily. Since the stairs are an L-shape it won't capture motion from the bottom of the stairs.

I'll add a regular 3-way switch at the bottom of the stairs just because I can do it easily and might as well. I have a double gang box for it and already have a 3-way that'll work with the motion sensor switch. I'll put it in the switch box with the switch for the basement lights.

I appreciate your help! I am in an electrical program but don't have class until Monday. Wanted to knock this out today. Now I can!

Just remember that you will need a neutral at the light switch for your motion sensor to work

 

[wiringinillinois]

Just remember that you will need a neutral at the light switch for your motion sensor to work

Thank you. I was planning on running the circuit from the panel to the motion sensor switch and then spread out from there. I'm currently looking up if I need to hit the motion sensor switch first or if I could hit the companion switch first. Funny enough, the switches I'm looking at don't require a neutral, just a ground (Lutron MS-OPS5MH and its companion MA-AS).

Also, I'm wondering if it's okay to install this Lutron motion sensor switch in a surface mounted metal box with a metal cover. I have commercial switches installed in my other surface mounts. Have been trying to look up if these can only be put in flush mount installations or if they are fine for this use case.

I can't wait to know everything like you guys! I spend so much time planning and always find a new question for myself.

Edit: And there's always the possibility of jumping ship and just installing a single-pole motion sensor switch and forgetting about the 3-way since it's not super necessary. But trying to challenge myself a bit and when I'm ready to run the wires things always make more sense as I'm physically working.

 

[Megawatt]

Thank you. I was planning on running the circuit from the panel to the motion sensor switch and then spread out from there. I'm currently looking up if I need to hit the motion sensor switch first or if I could hit the companion switch first. Funny enough, the switches I'm looking at don't require a neutral, just a ground (Lutron MS-OPS5MH and it's companion MA-AS).

Also, I'm wondering if it's okay to install this Lutron motion sensor switch in a surface mounted metal box with a metal cover. I have commercial switches installed in my other surface mounts. Have been trying to look up if these can only be put in flush mount installations or if they are fine for this use case.

I can't wait to know everything like you guys! I spend so much time planning and always find a new question for myself.

In my opinion you would be better off using plastic boxes with plastic covers. If you are going to run conduit then yes use metal boxes but ground each box

 

[wiringinillinois]

In my opinion you would be better off using plastic boxes with plastic covers. If you are going to run conduit then yes use metal boxes but ground each box

Thank you! I need to run conduit since the stairwell is odd and there's no way to flush mount anything. The wires will need to be in conduit for protection so I'll need to run EMT. I will definitely be grounding the boxes. I know I can't use a plastic cover on a metal box but I'm hoping with a metal decora cover I can still use the switch itself and be to code.

I got 4 spools of THHN for very cheap that I'm happy to run in the conduit since wire is so expensive and I have no other use for it at current. So having to surface mount and run conduit is okay with me since it'll enable me to use up this wire.