URGENT - DECC consultation closes 11.45pm Monday 7th July 50-250kWp bands | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss URGENT - DECC consultation closes 11.45pm Monday 7th July 50-250kWp bands in the Green Lounge (Access Only) area at ElectriciansForums.net

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I've just seen that DECC have a part B of their consultation for the over 5MW solar Farms that actually applies to 50-250kWp RooFIT systems.


They're apparently trying to boost the roof mounted installations in this sector, which I'd support, but the way they're proposing to do it is complete nonsense, so really needs more people to respond to point this out.

They've mixed up ground mounted systems with stand alone systems, and have come up with a proposal that would split the bands proportionally between Non-Stand-alone and stand-alone systems.

The way the scheme is set up though means that there can be no stand-alone systems in the standard 0-250kWp systems as stand-alone specifically means it's not connected to a building's electricity supply, so they're on the verge of completely bolloxing the entire scheme up.

Consultation is here, page 18 onwards.

Email responses to [email protected]
 
My response so far, I'll edit and send this evening.

I'd welcome a second opinion to double check that I've understood this right, as I'm really struggling to understand how DECC could be so monumentally stupid as to not even understand how their own scheme actually functions.

Dear DECC,

I've just seen your consultation part B, and frankly I think you've all lost the plot. Have you even read the definitions of stand-alone contained within the FIT legislation and clearly outlined in Ofgem's guidance, or have you just asked an intern to draft up this policy in their lunch break?

This needs a serious rething / dropping before you create a completely unworkable paradox within the scheme legislation.


9 -

  • No it won't make an ounce of difference because you've completely misunderstood how the scheme works. There are zero standalone systems registered under any of the 0-250kWp bands, as they have their own band that applies for all standalone systems, so your proposals make absolutely no sense at all. See point 10 for details.
  • Also the reasons for lack of installs in these categories aren't down to degression, they're down to difficulty in obtaining DNO approval, companies not wishing to commit that level of finance to solar installs in one go, these systems requiring planning permission, the complexity of the RooFIT system, and a lack of capacity within the industry.
  • We have a backlog of 20 quotes outstanding for 30-250kWp systems, we've had a 400% increase in inquiries in the last 6 months vs last year in the large roof mounted category, but it takes a long time to increase our capacity to enable us to handle that increased level of inquiries, and process them through to actual installations.
  • Please don't do this, fiddling with the scheme and making it more complex for next to no net benefit is the last thing we need, and barely anyone in the industry even knows what you're planning to do. We need a long period of stability, then we'll deliver the capacity increase you're looking for.


10.
This is the definition of stand-alone from the latest Ofgem guidance to suppliers, as taken from the FIT legislation.
Stand-alone (autonomous):Stand-alone solar photovoltaic (not wired to provide electricity to a building)

There should be no stand-alone systems installed in the 50-150 or 150-250kWp categories because all standalone systems have to be registered under their own tariff level, currently 6.38p / kWh
Consequently we believe that the majority of ground mounted solar PV installations will be considered as stand-alone.
It'd be true to say that virtually all stand-alone systems are ground mounted, but completely wrong to state it the other way round.

All ground mounted solar PV instalations in the 0-250kWp band will be connected to provide electricity to buildings because the Stand-alone rate rarely makes economic sense, and would pretty much only be applied by accident. This is why the standalone figures aren't increasing at all, not because standalone systems are being accredited via the standard 0-250kWp categories.

Connecting a standalone system as being on one of the 0-250kWp FIT bands would be fraudulent and the suppliers would know because they've have had to install a new MPAN for them to connect to the grid.
There is the potential that some stand-alone solar PV may wire through a building and thereby count towards the capacity thresholds of the new other than stand-alone degression band.
No there isn't, as any installation that is wired to a building's electrical supply automatically isn't a stand-alone installation, look at the definition of stand-alone, how can it be otherwise?

If you mean ground mounted systems then say ground mounted, you can not use the phrase stand-alone to refer to anything other than actual stand-alone systems as described in that actual act itself and all available guidance since 2009. Do you not even run this stuff passed a lawyer before you put the consultations out?


11

No. See points 9 and 10. You're introducing a nonsense split that is entirely counter to how the scheme actually operates, there are no stand-alone systems in any of the other categories.


12 It shouldn't be implemented at all.

I am entirely your target market for this, the only thing we do is install roof mounted systems, we have never installed a ground mount system.
 
This copy of part of the STA Draft response to the consultation may help explain this a bit better in terms of what is meant as stand alone in this context.
 

Attachments

  • Draft response.pdf
    35.3 KB · Views: 6
I'm not sure what STA are on about either re standalone.

There hasn't been a single standalone installation registered for feed in tariffs since October 2013, the capacity registered in that category has remained at 197.3MW every month since October 2013.

Isolating standalone could cause rapid degression, as an example 40MW of standalone in Qt 1 would result in a 14% degression, so the tariff would drop from 6.38p to 5.49p just in one quarter. if the intention to remove ground mount solar PV farms from registering under FIT this would work very quickly.....<snip>

The figure are pretty clear, there is no solar PV being installed as standalone for FIT purposes, they have already killed it because the FIT rate is already lower than the ROCS rate, so the chances of there suddenly being 40MWp of standalone installed as standalone for FITs is negligible unless ROCs has reduced below the standalone rate (which has just been subject to a 3.5% degression.

Too late to give STA any feedback though.
 
Last edited:
Stand alone refers to ground mounted not connected to a building but connected to the grid.

not wired to provide electricity to a building

Technically it could be mounted on a building but not wired to provide power to it, and still be classed as standalone, though this would be fairly rare even if the rates weren't so rigged against stand alone.

It's a distinct category of FIT with it's own tariff level and degression rates, it has nothing at all to do with any of the other 0-250kWp tariff rates that specifically can not also be stand alone, as a system can't both be wired to provide power to a building (as all 0-250kWp systems must be to get those tariff levels), and also not be wired to provide power to a building as it would need to be to be classed as stand-alone.
 
ah... I'll hold my hands up to misunderstanding this, unfortunately it would appear to be worse than I originally thought.

I'd not realised that the degression for above 50kWp systems was based on all installed capacity above 50kWp & standalone combined.

So DECC splitting it up does make some sense, however as there have been no standalone installations registered for FIT since October 2013, and therefore none contributing to the deployment rate that determines the degression level, what DECC have actually done is to reduce the deployment level needed to result in a FIT reduction for non standalone systems by 25%.

The deployment level needed for a 3.5% FIT cut previously was 100MWp in a quarter from combined Standalone and non standalone above 50kWp. As standalone contributed 0MWp in the last 2 quarters, this left 100MWp for non-standalone systems.

DECC is proposing to cut this level to 75MWp, so in effect, unless anything significant changes re the ROC rate v FIT rate, the net beneficiary of this will be standalone systems as their rate won't degress if non-standalone hits the trigger point. Non -standalone systems will hit degression at 25% lower install rate than would currently be the case.
 
This is my redrafted email that I just managed to change before the deadline after finally tracking down the original wording of the FIT degression mechanism.

Dear DECC,

Re Part B of your consultation, I run Leeds Solar, which is a company that is increasingly specialising in roof mounted commercial solar PV systems, and doesn't install any ground mounted systems, so please take the following comments as being from a company that is supportive of the aims, just not the method proposed.


9 -

  • No, it will do the exact opposite as there hasn't been a single Stand Alone system registered for FITs since October 2013, so all systems currently being registered in the 50-250kWp FIT bands are non-standalone systems. (source = May 2014 FIT deployment statistics)
  • You're therefore actually reducing the degression band by 25% for these tariff bands.

  • Also the reasons for lack of installs in these categories aren't down to degression, they're down to difficulty in obtaining DNO approval, companies not wishing to commit that level of finance to solar installs in one go, these systems requiring planning permission, the complexity of the RooFIT system, and a lack of capacity within the industry, along with the failure of the current preliminary accreditation scheme that does nothing to overcome the problems associated with a 65 day lead time for receiving decisions on above 50kW grid connections - as the preliminay accreditation only applies after premission has been granted, not at the point of the application being submitted.
  • We have a backlog of 20 quotes outstanding for 30-250kWp systems, we've had a 400% increase in inquiries in the last 6 months vs last year in the large roof mounted category, but it takes a long time to increase our capacity to enable us to handle that increased level of inquiries, and process them through to actual installations.


10.
This is the definition of stand-alone from the latest Ofgem guidance to suppliers, as taken from the FIT legislation.
Stand-alone (autonomous):Stand-alone solar photovoltaic (not wired to provide electricity to a building)

---​
Consequently we believe that the majority of ground mounted solar PV installations will be considered as stand-alone.
It'd be true to say that virtually all stand-alone systems are ground mounted, but completely wrong to state it the other way round as you do here.

All ground mounted solar PV instalations in the 0-250kWp band will be connected to provide electricity to buildings because the Stand-alone rate rarely makes economic sense, and would pretty much only be applied by accident. This is why the standalone figures aren't increasing at all, not because standalone systems are being accredited via the standard 0-250kWp categories.
There is the potential that some stand-alone solar PV may wire through a building and thereby count towards the capacity thresholds of the new other than stand-alone degression band.
No there isn't, as any installation that is wired to a building's electrical supply automatically isn't a stand-alone installation, look at the definition of stand-alone, how can it be otherwise?

If you mean ground mounted systems then say ground mounted, you can not use the phrase stand-alone to refer to anything other than actual stand-alone systems as described in that actual act itself and all available guidance since 2009.


11. It may be appropriate to split the 2 bands, but you can't spit it in this way while claiming that you're doing it to support roof mounted systems as it's doing the opposite.


12 It shouldn't be implemented at all.

I am entirely your target market for this, the only thing we do is install roof mounted systems, we have never installed a ground mount system, please listen to me if you genuinely want to improve the situation for largescale roof mounted systems
 

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