Using 4" drain pipe clamps to run twin in.

[giles-stone]

I was just wondering if anyone had been made to use 4" drain pipe clips to run t+e in.
I've been rewiring a primary school recently and the firm i've been subbying to supplied 400 pipe clips instead of any other form of containment.
The clips are fixed to timber joists with about 3" left hanging underneath for the cables to be run in.
I was fairly appalled at being asked to use these and have now left the firm (for more reasons than just this).
Sadly though I felt that i was the only person who really had any opposition to them, everyone just seemed to mumble about them being quick, cheap and easy to use.
I went out with one of the foreman last night and he was still defending them saying that they were fine to use and that there was nothing wrong with them!
I can't put my finger on a specific reg but surely there's no way that this is an approved method.
Anybody have any thoughts?

 

[Jay Sparks]

I also cant think of any regs but I what I will say is, without seeing the install in question, it sounds no different to using "all round band". As long as its fit for the purpose, it should be ok. But like I said, its hard to say for definate without seeing the actual install.



Jay

 

[Strima]

Wouldn't be my first choice in fixing, however as Jay has pointed out, without seeing the install and construction there's no way of giving a firm answer. Fixings must be suitable and all that, no doubt someone will be along with the correct BS number etc.

 

[londonlec]

Sounds reasonable to me. Obviously tray would be better.

 

[jumpin jax]

i recently worked at a bar where the first fix had already been carried out and the electricians said the builder would not pay for basket or tray and the old t&e loop method was used which did not impress me as if there was a fire and the false ceiling came down the rescue services would have great difficulty as reported recently of 2 deaths. These plastic hoops also would, i believe, have the same bearing of risk factor.

 

[Guest123]

What was the fire alarm system supported by???

 

[Mark_Burgess]

What was the fire alarm system supported by???

Blu-tack

 

[sedgy34]

one could argue the cables are still supported

 

[jumpin jax]

until they melt that is. What would the fire officer say?

 

[Guest123]

one could argue the cables are still supported

Not when the clips have burnt away they wont be.

BS 5839 guidance is clear on the methods of support for fire alrm system cableing.

 

[sedgy34]

Not when the clips have burnt away they wont be.

BS 5839 guidance is clear on the methods of support for fire alrm system cableing.

Hi lenny he talks of twin & earth. fire alarm would have to be fp steel clips.

 

[Guest123]

Hi lenny he talks of twin & earth. fire alarm would have to be fp steel clips.

Sorry, I thought your reply was aimed at my fire alarm querey.

 

[sedgy34]

didnt notice your quiery
but i would imagine the fire alarm has the correct supports with those regs you state

 

[Engineer54]

I was just wondering if anyone had been made to use 4" drain pipe clips to run t+e in.
I've been rewiring a primary school recently and the firm i've been subbying to supplied 400 pipe clips instead of any other form of containment.
The clips are fixed to timber joists with about 3" left hanging underneath for the cables to be run in.
I was fairly appalled at being asked to use these and have now left the firm (for more reasons than just this).
Sadly though I felt that i was the only person who really had any opposition to them, everyone just seemed to mumble about them being quick, cheap and easy to use.
I went out with one of the foreman last night and he was still defending them saying that they were fine to use and that there was nothing wrong with them!
I can't put my finger on a specific reg but surely there's no way that this is an approved method.
Anybody have any thoughts?

I can't for the life of me think of a reason why anyone would use pipe clamps as a means to support T&E cable runs in a primary school environment!! Who inspects these installations on behalf of the council, the LABC?? Just wondering what they would have to say about such a means of containment/support being used!!! Any contractor that even suggested such a method, would be off any job or project of mine!!! Talk about the Pitt's!!! lol!!

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Even picture hooks would hold up a few minutes longer in a fire than plastic pipe clamps!!

 

[Amp David]

And i thought i was being odd when i used size 6 SWA cleats to take 1 6mm and 2 2.5mm down into a cellar.

Could get T and E clips to stay in the motar on so used them instead.

Did the job fine and looked better than standard clip IMO

 

[Guitarist]

I cannot understand why anyone would use 4" pipe clips to support cable, especially as there are timber joists available for actual "cable clips".....

 

[ackbarthestar]

I like the idea of pipe clamps.
How long would T&E last in a fire burning at 1000Deg C within minutes?
and how many cables would you be able to run along a 150mm open joist?
At least it will be ventilated under normal operating conditions and protected by RCBOs the circuit will be out before the cable falls off the wall.
The cables should be laid on tray or run in trunking, but that isn't 'quality' is it ?

 

[tazz]

Reading this with interest.
After a well known local supermarket chain was found £220k by HS for breach of fire regs and safe installations.
After 2 stores caught fire, fire fighters had to tangle with T&E cables while putting the fire out. Even tho the false ceiling were still intact and supported, cables had been through above the ceiling with no such support.
New Architect and local building control have now insisted on galv trunking and tray for all cables. Interestingly he has used the regs under the statement "machanical protection of all cables" and has gone as far as all data, security, cctv and fire must be installed on tray or basket. This has been the norm and prefered method for us in industrial sites, and looks like small builds will now follow

 

[Knobhead]

I’ve used 3” steel pipe clamps to run 195mm 3½ core cables. They were following a pipe run that was pre drilled for the clamps so it made sense.
As to using 4” plastic clamps for T+E, no, I don’t think so.