NICEIC Certification Scheme Using Niceic sheets commercially and differences of opinion

[ipf]

Isnt that a PIR or now an installation condition report?

Sure is. Thats the one I'd think about changing, though.

 

[Guest112]

I've done large commercial/industrial condition reports for a company which had it's own paperwork, was much more suited to the type of environment.

 

[D Skelton]

The 1667 max is a get out, easy way and shouldn't even come into play for a TN-S or TN-C-S.

You're right, it certainly shouldn't come in to play on a TN system. 7667 can however.

Regardless of our opinions of people using RCDs to provide earth fault protection, 7667 ohms IS the max permitted Zs. It's the value that goes down on my certs for any circuit that is protected by a 30mA RCD (1667 on a TT) however any new circuit installed will not only conform to the circuit design spec, but the values obtained during testing will be used to ensure that the circuit complies with the values permitted for MCBs only.

In short, I will test a circuit on C10 RCBO for example and ensure that the value obtained is lower than 1.84, but I will record 7667 on the cert.

 

[Guest112]

Just reading through my thread and am still a bit muddled, multiple answers have been given one leaning towards entering the main switch of the DB that has been added to and others have said it's the multi pole device closest to the origin as possible...

So for example if I installed a new circuit from an existing board, and this board is fed from a LV panel and this panel fed from a transformer feeder pillar oon the load side of the transformer, I would need to determine the Main switch on the feeder pillar???

 

[Guest112]

I know it's the particulars of the installation at the origin but commercially it's a different scenario

We know the origin is the point of where electricity enters an installation...

But in say a factory how can someone be expected to take the installation apart possibly halting production costing thousands to enter details on a form??

I can see why most in a commercial/industrial scenario enter the local main switch closest to the part of the installation that has been worked on...

 

[guest119]

Just reading through my thread and am still a bit muddled, multiple answers have been given one leaning towards entering the main switch of the DB that has been added to and others have said it's the multi pole device closest to the origin as possible...

So for example if I installed a new circuit from an existing board, and this board is fed from a LV panel and this panel fed from a transformer feeder pillar oon the load side of the transformer, I would need to determine the Main switch on the feeder pillar???

Main switch at the origin is just that, not any sub board.
Overcurrent device at the origin is just that, not any subsequent breaker.
Sometimes you can source main tails size, fuses etc from drawings etc if available from maintenance or if you are lucky, in the switch room.
As regards origin, think of it as AFTER metering.

 

[Guest112]

Cheers mate that's what I thought

Nic paperwork is dreadful

 

[Guest125]

For me it is very clear:

1) the main supply characteristics cover the main head area and the associated fuses.

2) the main switch part is for the first isolation point of the installation. Normally for domestic installations this would be the DB main switch. For commercial installations it would be the first point of isolation after the main head.

3) for your installation only a EIC will do. The first DB will be the existing panel board with all outgoing circuits showed on the certificate but instead of the actual circuit designation you would put 'existing circuit '. Only your new circuit would be designated as 'DB 5' for example. All existing circuit results would be N/A and the test results recorded on your new circuit. Then a continuation page would start for you new board and then you would test that as standard.

 

[Guest125]

And remember you can insert limitations if it is impractical to shut down a complete factory to ascertain the particulars at the origin. What you should not do is just put another part of the installation in as the origin because that is false. Make the limitations clear to the person ordering the work prior to the works going ahead. This is what limitations are for.

 

[guest119]

Inserting of Lims need to be agreed beforehand in writing from the client (or a printed e mail) and attached to the EIC or you have no authority to insert it.

 

[Guest125]

Inserting of Lims need to be agreed beforehand in writing from the client (or a printed e mail) and attached to the EIC or you have no authority to insert it.

Hence I said agree this before hand with the person ordering the work.

 

[guest119]

Yep,I was just emphasising the need for it in writing, not disagreeing with you Bud.