Value Engineering

[atm84]

Can anyone help me out with value engineering a job.

I have a list of items that have been specified and I am trying to come up with alternative suggestions/ maunfacturers of the items that may be regarded the same in quality but cheaper in cost.

1. Schneider Switch gear/ distribution boards

2. MK Logic accessories



3. Trend BMS system



4. Trunking and single core cables



Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

[trev]

Why? If that's what has been specced then that's what the client wants. I appreciate that you might want to give alternatives or score some brownie points for giving equivalent quality at lower cost (We've all done it) but is there a point? They could just say "We gave you a spec so stick to it"
Last time I did it I wasted a shedload of time because that's what the client hit me with when I gave them a list of alternatives( I despised that spotty little git of an architect)

 

[Geordie Spark]

Why? If that's what has been specced then that's what the client wants. I appreciate that you might want to give alternatives or score some brownie points for giving equivalent quality at lower cost (We've all done it) but is there a point? They could just say "We gave you a spec so stick to it"
Last time I did it I wasted a shedload of time because that's what the client hit me with when I gave them a list of alternatives( I despised that spotty little git of an architect)

Aye, he was probably a Mackem an'all.

 

[Darkwood]

Your spec list is high quality and well respected products as above if its been spec'd then its for a reason... alternatives are usually only allowed if a product is not obtainable within the time limits or discontinued.
The list you have given is obviously from someone who is clued up on the quality, reliability and durability of the goods.

 

[atm84]

Its a generic spec that offers the highest quality, however and I can only assume that this is the case that as the spec hasn't been rewritten in a few years and with times being hard the client is trying to ask if there are any alternatives.

 

[trev]

Aye, he was probably a Mackem an'all.

You're right mate, he was. I really enjoyed proving the pompous --- wrong time after time.
He thought he had me on one occasion, I was doing some work in schools in Mackem land (yes they do have them there) and was nearly finished a job, looking forward to a bit of testing and an early finish when he walked on the job. "Where's the shower?" he asked
"What shower?"
"The one that's on the drawing"
I went and got the latest release.
"If you can find a shower on there pal you can have my pay for the week"
He was absolutely furious and I just stood there with a grin on my face

 

[ian.settle1]

As Trev says if that is what has been specced then use them as if you decided to fit an alternative without it being OK'd you could find yourself out of pocket purchasing and fitting what was specced

 

[atm84]

As Trev says if that is what has been specced then use them as if you decided to fit an alternative without it being OK'd you could find yourself out of pocket purchasing and fitting what was specced

Everything that I propose is subject to approval. The client has asked me to offer alternatives and then they will approve/ disapprove as necessary.

 

[trev]

Fair enough mate

 

[Guest55]

1. hager cheaper than schnider
2. senate brand accessories cheaper than MK
3. dunno
4. steel basket & T&E cheaper than singles and trunking ( by virtue of quicker installation thus lower labour costs )

are just suggested alternatives.........

 

[atm84]

Cheers guys.

Any of you have experience with YY cable with tray/basket rather than singles and trunking.

 

[Outspoken]

Comments in RED

Can anyone help me out with value engineering a job.

I have a list of items that have been specified and I am trying to come up with alternative suggestions/ maunfacturers of the items that may be regarded the same in quality but cheaper in cost.

1. Schneider Switch gear/ distribution boards

Schneider are brand leaders and have the best quality MCB's in both single and three phase, plus the gut tray offer independent breaker isolation (good for unused ways). The only manufacturer who somes close these days is MEM Eaton. Hagar is good but depending on the location of this kit then Schneider (M-G) is best.​

2. MK Logic accessories

Best accessories on the market for quality. Avoid own brand tat, it may be cheap but is rubbish.
​

3. Trend BMS system

Trend is old now, very expensive and not as upgradable as many state or think. I would suggest you look at Tridium, we just installed that in modules 2/3 of a Tier 3 Data centre because we had lots of issues with the Trend 963 that runs Module 1. Trend had problems really integrating with the HV/LV monitoring system from APS and also the Schneider system for taking meter readings. Tridium solved those in a heartbeat..great system
​

4. Trunking and single core cables

Trunking, conduit and singles were appropriate will always win out. For containment then you will find it hard to beat and offers a cheap upgrade path in future. A well thought out and quality containment installation is real value to any job.
​

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Hope the comments above help, I would suggest that before you go changing things I would speak to the client and ensure that the specification is suggestions or cast in stone because if you install kit outside the spec you may be forced to replace at your expense and this could really damage you financially and professionally.

What type of building is this kit going in?

If you want good advise for a BMS system then i would suggest you contact a specialist contractor and seek expert advise.

Two I would personally recommend are;

Direct Controls (Ask for Bertie Botha - really decent bloke, highly professional and honest--Great Engineer)

DEMMA CONTROLS

 

[Dcf]

1) on a recent job it was specd for Schneider at 1200 quid, mem3 850, hager 650
Went with hager.
2) Ashley sollysta aren't bad and decent quality.
3) not done any bms for about 10 years but it was mainly trend back then most of your cost saving will be on that I would think
4) basket with either fp or t&e I like unitrunk personally but there isn't much in it between manufacturers really.
This kind of stuff can run away with your time to not much of an end result tbh.

 

[atm84]

Cheers guys, thanks for your info. Ill let you know what gets submitted and whether any of it gets the nod.