VO4Home set reduction v Vphase's solution

[DomB]

Morning chaps,

Had a query come in about the different ways VO4Home & Vphase work. VO4home works on reducing the voltage by a set amount at installation whereas vPhase reduces whatever comes in to 220V.

vPhase's website says "There is an (additional) risk with set reduction commercial systems that if the utility company reduces voltage too close to statutory limits, maybe for short periods or transient events, then the site could drop below statutory limits because of the fixed reduction of voltage. This would cause a “Brown Out” at the site. The VX1 does not suffer this problem. If the utility voltage drops below the VX1 set point then the VX1 simply enters bypass mode and the utility voltage is applied to the house."

The supply we want to optimise covers two properties (a main house and a granny flat) so the VO4Home's active rating of 60A is the right thing (v's the 20A rating of the vPhase). I just need to get past this potential brown out issue for the customer. Any thoughts?!

Thanks very much!

 

[sedgy34]

Forget those you mention fit a Voltis unit You install this after the meter and before any distribution board

 

[DomB]

Correct me if I'm wromg but I think Voltis is Marshall Tufflex's commercial offering whilst VO4Home is their domestic offering..

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Correct me if I'm wromg but I think Voltis is Marshall Tufflex's commercial offering whilst VO4Home is their domestic offering..

Corrected! Sorry mate your belief is wrong, Voltis Home is Marshall Tufflex's domestic VO system. IMO it is the best domestic VO system currently available.
Voltis Home domestic voltage optimisation Marshall-Tufflex Energy Management

 

[Worcester]

Only problem with Voltis - ask them to stand up to their warranties!!

V04Home is the domestic prodcut from EMS EMS Energy Management Systems UK | Power Saving Systems
Vphase only do a domestic unit, in fact it is their only product.

The V04Home is a 'whole house' solution - goes between the incoming and CU
Vphase, like the Voltis you really need to create a split board, taking the resistive loads (cooker, immersion etc) out of the VO'd circuits.

V04Home is fixed % redcution so COULD theoritcally reduce it below 207V if incorrectly configured
Vphase monitors it proportionally down to 220V

Can't comment on Voltis method of operation.

 

[DomB]

Thanks Worcester.

Thankfully it was the Voltis Home VH60HD I'd spec'd I just had in mind it was called the VO4Home. Silly I.

The Voltis looks to be rated at 60A (http://www.savepowerathome.co.uk/sites/default/files//Voltis Home technical guide - DOC00155_1.pdf) and is expected to cover all circuits much like the VO4Home. And it's intelligent enough to go into bypass when the voltage drops too low. Regards method of operation I've asked our contact at Marshall Tufflex and will come back when I know.

Big up

D

 

[sedgy34]

Its 63amps domb

 

[UNG]

V04Home is fixed % redcution so COULD theoritcally reduce it below 207V if incorrectly configured
Vphase monitors it proportionally down to 220V

Not sure why you are quoting 207V when the lower supply limit is 216V

 

[DomB]

Its 63amps domb

Even better! Although the documentation does mention 60A in Active Mode and 100A in bypass mode (at http://www.savepowerathome.co.uk/sites/default/files//Voltis Home technical guide - DOC00155_1.pdf)

Same doc mentions it steps the voltage down by "9% (fixed ratio)". Not sure if that means the output voltage fluctuates as the supply does, just at 9% less? I've asked Marshall Tufflex

 

[SolarCity]

Not sure why you are quoting 207V when the lower supply limit is 216V

I thought it was 218v? Not that I've ever seen a voltage anywhere near this.

 

[sedgy34]

We were fitting these units free with a 4 kw system lowest voltage I've ever seen was 220v

 

[UNG]

I thought it was 218v? Not that I've ever seen a voltage anywhere near this.

The current supply parameters are 230v +10%/-6% which gives a range of 253v down to 216.2v. The second stage of european voltage harmonisation was never enacted although there is talk that it may be resurrected at which point we'll have 230v +/-10%

 

[SolarCity]

Ah, I thought it was +10%/-5%. Fair enough. Low voltage is very rarely an issue though.

 

[it'llneverwork]

In my experience you're more likely to see grid over-voltage rather than under voltage.

I've seen 291V on rural a installation, commonly 280+ in rural Norfolk.

The big difference is in the way these units work - one of them is just a transformer, taxing x amount of the main voltage. The other offers an anti-sine wave to smoothe spikes. Can't remember which is which!

 

[RJMarshall]

In my experience you're more likely to see grid over-voltage rather than under voltage.

I've seen 291V on rural a installation, commonly 280+ in rural Norfolk.

The big difference is in the way these units work - one of them is just a transformer, taxing x amount of the main voltage. The other offers an anti-sine wave to smoothe spikes. Can't remember which is which!

I have recently fitted the vphase unit in my home after weighing up all the options. It seems that vphase is the only unit that actively stabilises the voltage at 220V. It is the vphase that creates the 'anti-phase'. It is also worth bearing in mind that the vphase is rated up to 80A not 20 as mentioned above so it is suitable for larger properties (such as my 4 bed detached) with a higher load. My unit only goes into bypass occasionally, mainly at the weekend when practically everything in the house is on!

IMO the vphase is the best unit for most domestic properties and it is also the cheapest and lightest due to their patented technology. I also looked at the VO4home and it weighed an absolute tonne! All that is, is a glorified step down transformer!

 

[yorkshiremike]

The VPhase will only regulate up to 20A, in fact it will only handle just over 3kW (about 15A) continuously, because above this load it goes into thermal bypass after a few minutes. Practically, this means that you have to split the CU so that it isn't supplying an immersion, electric cooker, electric shower etc (or the PV for that matter), on mine, if I switch almost anything else on with the kettle (toaster, microwave, washing machine etc) it goes into bypass. It can be a nice solution if you're replacing the main CU, but we haven't come across an installation yet (as an adjunct to fitting PV) where the electricians' found it straight forward to fit - and several where it was impossible. Consequently, if we're fitting VO, we're now fitting Voltis for home units as provided the PV is on separate tails/mini CU, it's just a case of inserting the Voltis in the tails before the main CU.

 

[Worcester]

Also a bit scary when someone's first post is high praise for a particular item, when they've never previously entered into the discussion. With the knowledge they appear to show, and what they have specifically missed out - e.g., proof of savings one can only be sceptical of who their employer is and what their motive is.

As I get older I get more cynical

 

[sedgy34]

ive put in a voltis unit at my house its switching to 220v suppossed to be 17% saving a year no problems as yet

 

[SolarRoofSols]

Has anyone looked into the APEX VO unit? We met with the rep after seeing vPhase and others at various shows and liked the APEX as you didn't have to split the CU. Not installed one yet - any thoughts?? Apex Energy UK - Voltage Optimisation For The Home

 

[RJMarshall]

Haha, nothing like a good old fashioned skeptic Worcester ;-). Sorry, I am not generally one to use forums and just came across this after doing a bit more post installation research hence no introduction and in with both feet! I can only go by what I have experienced and that is that the Vphase came out on top in my comparisons. I did a fair bit of umming and arring before deciding which to go for. They all have their pros and cons and it seems the lower capicity of the VPhase is it's main downfall but shouldn't be a problem in the majority of homes. The reason I decided against the Voltis was the fact that it doesn't optimise below 300W and the fact that it and the V04 home are essentially just step down transformers and also cost (and weigh) a fair bit more. It is true that the Vphase can't be installed straight from the meter but why would you want to try and optimise a heating element? My son installed our Vphase (He's the electrician) and found no problem in splitting the board.

 

[brman]

Haha, nothing like a good old fashioned skeptic Worcester ;-). Sorry, I am not generally one to use forums and just came across this after doing a bit more post installation research hence no introduction and in with both feet! I can only go by what I have experienced and that is that the Vphase came out on top in my comparisons. I did a fair bit of umming and arring before deciding which to go for. They all have their pros and cons and it seems the lower capicity of the VPhase is it's main downfall but shouldn't be a problem in the majority of homes. The reason I decided against the Voltis was the fact that it doesn't optimise below 300W and the fact that it and the V04 home are essentially just step down transformers and also cost (and weigh) a fair bit more. It is true that the Vphase can't be installed straight from the meter but why would you want to try and optimise a heating element? My son installed our Vphase (He's the electrician) and found no problem in splitting the board.

A slight correction to this. The Voltis (VH60HD to make sure we are talking about the same unit) apparently optimises at any current above 0.5A by default, this is user settable to 0.2A. So I make that about 115W down to 50W or there abouts. It is also 40A max continuous, 60A for 30 minutes before dropping to bypass mode. This isn't entirely obvious from the tech info on the website but I have had it confirmed by their technical support.
There does seam some slight advantage to splitting the CU in that you don't end up optimising cookers and immersion heaters (which is counter-productive) but I guess you could still split off the cooker/immersion to a not optimised board with the voltis if you wanted to.

I take it from what you are saying the vphase is not tranformer based. So must be a switch mode design? I can see an advantage in that in that it could maintain a constant output voltage for variable (within limits) input voltage but I think you would struggle to get a switch mode as efficient as a transformer so I am not sure it will really gain anything in reality. That is assuming my knowledge of smps design is not too out of date anyway!

I should add that this is all theoretical, I haven't actually installed any of these beasts but I have been looking at whether they are worth installing.