Wanted guidance notes 3

[lobsterbob]

Hello

Would like to get me grubby little hands on one of these bad boys - if anyone has a current edition - doesn't need to be in mint condition just readable and up-to-date.

Cheers ears.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You may as well wait untill the new edition comes out.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

You may as well wait untill the new edition comes out.

Yeah that'll be the third one I'll have bought in ... well .....three years. Outrageous. Robbers.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

There will never be a moment in time when all published books are up to date. For example, the first ammendment yet to go to print has only 2 new special locations, whilst another few are still being worked on. One of which will be published probably in the new year.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

True widdler. But they're still robbers!

 

[IQ Electrical]

You may as well wait untill the new edition comes out.

There's a slight delay now and it's looking like January at the earliest.

The current edition will have been published for 4 years by the time Edition 6 is published, not really robbery is it?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Robbers!


No youre right not really just wish theyd think about it first. I expect the week after there will be a 10 page list of errors

 

[IQ Electrical]

Robbers!


No youre right not really just wish theyd think about it first. I expect the week after there will be a 10 page list of errors

Until my involvement with the Guidance Note 3 amendment, I had little idea of what was involved in amending the regulations.

There were almost 800 changes by the end of the DPC.

If you imagine a 'flowchart' for each change, linking off to each other regulation affected by that change, then each Guidance Note reference, then the On-Site Guide, you start to see the enormity of the task.

The 'flowchart' starts to look like a DNA sequence!

 

[topquark]

Any form of technical publication is a nightmare, especially when there are so many people involved. Getting drafts reviewed/ratified is always a challenge and there is never a "right time" to publish. There will ALWAYS be changes needed, even if they are just simple typos. Things evolve, technology moves on (I'll resist saying advances wrt RCDs/RCBOs).

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Hind sight's a wonderful thing !

 

[phil_davison]

I have a GN3 you can have for a nominal fee, for some reason my college gave me 2 so its in mint condition as i've never opened it.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

The current draft for the 1st ammendment is a maze of corrections and alterations. I last had my hands on it last IET meet to which I noticed some information that was primarily requested still has not been introduced (some definitions etc). I made an observation that the maximum loop impedance values for the reduced disconnection times in the medical locations hasn't been provided, I reported it but it's now too late.

It takes a lot of tea and biscuits to get it as far gone as it is, but they have to stop somewhere. With harmonisation and new technologies we should really consider ourselves lucky that the book isn't annually updated.
If you take it upon yourselves to refer online to new technologies etc then you will realise how fast things are changing, and will understand more simply, the new content with incoming ammendments.

As a bare minimum I would suggest people download the wiring matters from the IET.

As IQ has pointed out, it does take a lot of leg work and involvement from professionals within the industry to create a good understanding and common 'harmony' with all introductions, alterations and deletions. Once these have been concurred, then naturally all other reference material (OSG, GN etc) will need updating if necessary.


So having seen in some detail how much work goes into it, I think the RRP is relatively justified.


I'll give you a good example of 'robbing' though.

Chris Kitcher and A.J. Watkins Electrical Installation Calculations book.

I have this book and the prior edition (pre 17th edition).
I stopped using this book when I noticed numerous (and I mean LOTS) of incorrect calculations within it. My copy has turned into a mess of corrections and adjustments.
So when I obtained a copy of the prior edition I was quite surprised to see that all the exact same questions and examples had been used (the only change was 240V to 230V).
So the older edition was published with numerous errors and it was just republished without any corrections made to their mistakes.

To me, that is robbery.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

The current draft for the 1st ammendment is a maze of corrections and alterations. I last had my hands on it last IET meet to which I noticed some information that was primarily requested still has not been introduced (some definitions etc). I made an observation that the maximum loop impedance values for the reduced disconnection times in the medical locations hasn't been provided, I reported it but it's now too late.

It takes a lot of tea and biscuits to get it as far gone as it is, but they have to stop somewhere. With harmonisation and new technologies we should really consider ourselves lucky that the book isn't annually updated.
If you take it upon yourselves to refer online to new technologies etc then you will realise how fast things are changing, and will understand more simply, the new content with incoming ammendments.

As a bare minimum I would suggest people download the wiring matters from the IET.

As IQ has pointed out, it does take a lot of leg work and involvement from professionals within the industry to create a good understanding and common 'harmony' with all introductions, alterations and deletions. Once these have been concurred, then naturally all other reference material (OSG, GN etc) will need updating if necessary.


So having seen in some detail how much work goes into it, I think the RRP is relatively justified.


I'll give you a good example of 'robbing' though.

Chris Kitcher and A.J. Watkins Electrical Installation Calculations book.

I have this book and the prior edition (pre 17th edition).
I stopped using this book when I noticed numerous (and I mean LOTS) of incorrect calculations within it. My copy has turned into a mess of corrections and adjustments.
So when I obtained a copy of the prior edition I was quite surprised to see that all the exact same questions and examples had been used (the only change was 240V to 230V).
So the older edition was published with numerous errors and it was just republished without any corrections made to their mistakes.

To me, that is robbery.

I apologize if the word "robbery" is inflammatory, it was a bit off the cuff I must admit.

To be more specific I meant the acceleration in publication of documentation riles (spelt right?) me.

I agree we live is times where the pace of change is changing itself, never mind the changes themselves, in less than a life time we have gone from a twisted pair to incredible optical transfer rates and no internet to .... the internet ...and never mind computers.

What I meant really was it is perplexing that at a time when this industry (if you are doing it right) is more assessed and 'invoiced' than a hospital doctor (our registration fees are more, they do NOT get their work assessed every year - I know I am married to one), and that it comes across as an excuse to print money releasing another £60 book a few years after the last. Just when the country and the construction industry, and more specifically, sparkys, are on their knees.

When was the previous. 1992? (forgive my inaccuracies if that is wrong).

But saying all that I concede Widdler that yes it must be a maze of amendments to deal with.

BUT on the other hand that is their job!

that was what I meant. Not to be flippant.

If I offend anyone with my seemingly cavalier attitude, I return their tankards and bid them good day.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I apologize if the word "robbery" is inflammatory, it was a bit off the cuff I must admit.

To be more specific I meant the acceleration in publication of documentation riles (spelt right?) me.

I agree we live is times where the pace of change is changing itself, never mind the changes themselves, in less than a life time we have gone from a twisted pair to incredible optical transfer rates and no internet to .... the internet ...and never mind computers.

What I meant really was it is perplexing that at a time when this industry (if you are doing it right) is more assessed and 'invoiced' than a hospital doctor (our registration fees are more, they do NOT get their work assessed every year - I know I am married to one), and that it comes across as an excuse to print money releasing another £60 book a few years after the last. Just when the country and the construction industry, and more specifically, sparkys, are on their knees.

When was the previous. 1992? (forgive my inaccuracies if that is wrong).

But saying all that I concede Widdler that yes it must be a maze of amendments to deal with.

BUT on the other hand that is their job!

that was what I meant. Not to be flippant.

If I offend anyone with my seemingly cavalier attitude, I return their tankards and bid them good day.

Absolutely no offence taken and I'm sure I speak for Widdler too.

I just wanted to try and give some insight into the processes of an amendment of a publication with so many branched and linked documents affected as a result.

There's a 'new dawn' at the IET and some serious efforts to adapt to the opinions of the actual users of the publications.

Some excellent ideas are being discussed regarding future updates and more flexible digital packages, the IET are listening.

 

[rocker]

the IET are listening.

Are they really? Widdler has already said that he has pointed out some innaccuracies but it's 'too late' for them to be rectified... the book isn't even out yet. So the caring, sharing IET are releasing a document that is, to all intents and purposes, compulsory, with known innacuracies, and are charging us £80 for the pleasure. Less than three years since the last time they did it. So how long before amendment 2? Is everyone going to say 'good job everybody, our work here is done' or are they going to IMMEDIATELY start on amendment 2? By the time we get through buying a new regs, a new OSG and electricians guide, and a selection of new guidance notes, we're going to be looking at certainly the best part or £250, and I'm sorry that's not an amount of money I can chuck away every couple of years. I go to work to make money to save myself, not for lining the IET's coffers because they've got some wacky new ideas about what rooms we should call special.

And all this when, as Sparkytus has mentioned, work is sparse and the industry is on it's uppers.

I'm not having a pop at any of you on here, I just don't think it's particularly fair.