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Discuss Warehouse wiring in the Talk Electrician area at ElectriciansForums.net
Hi DPG, thanks for the input. Certainly not looking for a way around it, just hoping for some clear advice. Looking to understand whether all the old wiring that was up to regs at the time when it was installed needs ripping out or not.The metal cable fixing regulation is to prevent people and possibly firefighters getting tangled up in wires that may drop down in the case if a fire if only plastic ties are used.
I suggest you stop looking for a way to get around this. The judge will take a dim view of you trying to save money if something goes badly wrong in the future.
Hi, thanks again and appreciate the advice but would be good if we could not cast aspersions about a persons character, especially coming from a Chelsea fanCable ties on a pipe would never have been acceptable. Not on the 17th, 16th or any other. It could be worth getting a second opinion on site from another spark to see if it really needs done. To me, you are trying to cut corners and make excuses not to make your installation safer to save yourself a few quid. Remember it is the public you are dealing with, and should anything happen you will get hammered for it. It sounds like a rough job, and probably does need re-done. If you really don't want to get the work done im sure you'll find someone out there that will sign a bit of paper for 50 quid that says its all ok, but that's on your head.
Thanks, yep, the tramps are out of the way of the trusses, in a diff area.Its going to be a trampoline park... is 4m really going to be out of reach?
I'm looking to just change Flouro tubes fittings to LED equivalents. Feels excessive to pull out whole wiring to do so but I'm hoping for some clear headed, impartial advice ion whether the law says it's necessary rather than anecdotal etc.The metal cable fixing regulation is to prevent people and possibly firefighters getting tangled up in wires that may drop down in the case if a fire if only plastic ties are used.
I suggest you stop looking for a way to get around this. The judge will take a dim view of you trying to save money if something goes badly wrong in the future.
Hi, thanks again and appreciate the advice but would be good if we could not cast aspersions about a persons character, especially coming from a Chelsea fan
Ha, but no, in all seriousness, i'm certainly not looking to cut corners, very happy to pay where necessary but you are incorrect about the cable ties, they've been a perfectly acceptable and widely used form of mechanical fixing up until the most recent regs change, plenty of literature out there about that fact.
I'm hoping to understand whether it is necessary to rip them out (at a cost of 20k) because I want to change the Flouro tubes to LED's... Don't forget, site was Napit certified as safe in 2018..
Ta
Absolutely, to be honest I was surprised when I found out cable ties were used in the past so would insist on retrofitting metal fire resistant clips.Hopefully you are at least going to ensure that some steel cable supports are put in place though?
Absolutely, to be honest I was surprised when I found out cable ties were used in the past so would insist on retrofitting metal fire resistant clips.
Contractor says we need to rip out wiring and start from scratch because:
- Current wire is a grey twin and earth that causes excess smoke and is only suitable for domestic.
- Current wiring is attached to redundant old pipework and ceiling trusses (4mtrs off the ground) by cable ties.
- Some back office wiring is surface mounted and not running inside trunking.
Thank you, it's really good to hear you say that and interesting about the LSF, perhaps I'll ask to forward the reg on that and the twin and earth reg to me. If he manages to find one I'll post it up here! ha.I am not aware of any regs that state that cables in commercial properties must be LSF cables. If there is one I would like to know the reg. Certain companies / countries may spec it for installs, so then you have to use it.
As mentioned above, if the existing cables are to be kept in place then they will to be secured properly with fire proof fixings. You said that you are going to do this, so no problem.
I see nothing wrong with cables being surface mounted in an office, as long as they are again fixed with fireproof fixings and in good condition and don't cause a safety hazard.
Ask the contractor to send you the reg that states twin & earth can't be used in commercial properties.
I assume you mean a NAPIT approved contractor issued a certificate that indicated the installation was satisfactory in 2018 with no codes.Don't forget, site was Napit certified as safe in 2018..
Hi, thanks for your thoughts.I assume you mean a NAPIT approved contractor issued a certificate that indicated the installation was satisfactory in 2018 with no codes.
You are proposing to carry out some electrical works that should result in another certificate being issued and any inspection and testing will be undertaken to the latest version of the regs so your cable ties will no doubt attract an observation and a coding which may result in an unsatisfactory certificate being issued.
Even if you rely on the 2018 certificate you are only delaying the inevitable remedial work needed to rectify the issue which in a warehouse full of trampolines may be more difficult and more costly than it is now
There is also the 2005 RRO to consider and any inspection that may be carried out on the premises under that act because the premises are open to the public
I assume you are referring to the 2005 RRO or to give it it's full title The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 that I mentionedIs there some regulation you're referring to that says that wouldn't be sufficient?
Hi, thanks again. Sorry, I mean whether you know of any regs that say our remedy of using fire resistant s'steel cable ties to secure the current wiring would not be sufficient? Thanks for the info on the RRO non the less, good to know the Fire Brigade are on top of all of this stuff.I assume you are referring to the 2005 RRO or to give it it's full title The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 that I mentioned
Any inspection under that order is normally carried out by a fire brigade officer usually by appointment although it is not unknown for them to do an unannounced visit they normally review your fire risk assessment and things like exit routes, fire extinguishers, fire alarm and emergency lighting (if fitted) they also look for any hazards that may be considered to present a risk to firefighters if a fire occurred
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