Water on electronics, no breaker drops

[benjish]

Hi everyone,

I rented out an outdoor space for a party and they brought a DJ. Unfortunately there was a water pipe that burst and showered the entire party as well as the DJ stand (just my luck).

The DJ is now telling me that all of his equipment is fried, laptops, TV, disk players, speakers... and he wants me to basically buy him all a whole new set (worth ~10K$ way way more than I made renting..).

From what I saw only the speakers took on heavy water (they were on the ground), the laptops, disk players and rest only had tiny droplets on the casings and water didn't seem to get inside. So I question his word on the subject and therefore wondered why the power kept going as if nothing happened.

For the circuit he was plugged into I have a mains breaker at 40A followed by a GFCI breaker (40A 30mA break) itself followed by a 10A breaker. My understanding is that had water entered the equipment and caused a short the GFCI would have dropped. I've tested my installation and both the GFCI and breaker are working perfectly.

So my question is, is there anyway his equipment is damaged considering my electrical installation detected no short? The only thing that makes me question this (because to me its a solid no) is the transformers I'm assuming some of these machines used (like laptop) as I know the output of a transformer isn't properly protected by the GFCI...

I've never heard of actually breaking (leaving a water mark and being a pain to dry sure, but not breaking) a speaker with water and the rest of the equipment was barely showered and I'd be surprised any water went in at all..

Any insight from more knowledgeable people would be amazing,

Thanks guys!
Ben

 

[telectrix]

I'd say he's trying it on. why not contact your insurers and get them to send a loss adjuster to inspect his equipment?

 

[Midwest]

That said, water and electronics don’t mix. As advised, put it in the hands of an insurance company. I hope you have one.

 

[benjish]

Talked to my insurance, they said that since he provided a paid service he must be insured too and his insurance takes precedence over mine... they'll only pay if his insure doesn't cover it all.
I agree he's probably trying to scam me, i was just hoping to some insight into the electric aspect of it

 

[GBDamo]

I'd say he's trying it on. why not contact your insurers and get them to send a loss adjuster to inspect his equipment?

Thats the answer.

 

[UNG]

From afar it is difficult to decide or give an insight into what the level of damage may or may not be to the equipment as we don't know the quantity of water or the time scale involved

Did the DJ's equipment fail at the event or was this found at a later time when he decided he needed a whole new rig let's face it the evidence may have been in his own shower in an attempt to substantiate his claim as your timeline is not clear

May be you need to turn detective and find out if the DJ is still out doing gigs and what equipment he is using it wouldn't be the first time that people making claims get caught out that way

The big question is do you have or can you get any pictures of what happened the camera is king these days when it comes to claims or fraud

 

[telectrix]

failing all else , could fly a couple of my Scouser mates over. give the dj a Kop End Kiss.

 

[benjish]

From afar it is difficult to decide or give an insight into what the level of damage may or may not be to the equipment as we don't know the quantity of water or the time scale involved

He moved his equipment out of the water in a matter of minutes, as for the quantity.. well thats subjective

Did the DJ's equipment fail at the event or was this found at a later time when he decided he needed a whole new rig let's face it the evidence may have been in his own shower in an attempt to substantiate his claim as your timeline is not clear

The big question is do you have or can you get any pictures of what happened the camera is king these days when it comes to claims or fraud

Took me ~20min to get on site, by the time i arrived the DJ had wiped the water off of everything and packed everything in their travel bags (which i found weird, I'd have left them to dry). He told me on the spot that he had a lot of damages, and next(this) morning "everything is dead"... My estimates on how much water was on each device are from pictures/videos he took and he showed me at that time. By the time I arrived there was nothing to see or photograph... (except wet grass)

May be you need to turn detective and find out if the DJ is still out doing gigs and what equipment he is using it wouldn't be the first time that people making claims get caught out that way

Good idea! I'll try that!

 

[GeorgeCooke]

For the circuit he was plugged into I have a mains breaker at 40A followed by a GFCI breaker (40A 30mA break) itself followed by a 10A breaker. My understanding is that had water entered the equipment and caused a short the GFCI would have dropped. I've tested my installation and both the GFCI and breaker are working perfectly.

So my question is, is there anyway his equipment is damaged considering my electrical installation detected no short?

Electronic equipment can be damaged with a lot less than 30 milliamps, so yes it 'could' be damaged.

Even so I doubt everything is and he's trying it on.

 

[ruston]

I would think the burden of proof for the damage is on him , I think he should have given you the opportunity to inspect it and not secrete it away from the premisses. I may be optimistic though.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I would think the burden of proof for the damage is on him , I think he should have given you the opportunity to inspect it and not secrete it away from the premisses. I may be optimistic though.

Yes, I would expect proof of damage would be required before any claim could be made.
To my mind, the DJ would have to take the equipment to a reputable repairer and get a quote for repair specifying water damage.
To be honest, I would just give the DJ details of your insurers, and let the DJ deal direct with them.

 

[Midwest]

Think the OP's insurers, are telling the DJ to rotate, i.e. he has to claim on his own insurance. So best left with them to argue amongst themselves.

 

[benjish]

Hey guys, thought I'd give some news as to what has happened after all in case anyone was interested...

The DJ sticks to his claims and has provided signed papers from an electronics repair company for the damages... you can imagine my amusement when I saw that the name under the signature had the same family name as the DJ

Anyway, I argued with the DJ saying this is an insurance problem and repeating what my insurance told me (That he has to make a claim to his insurance who will make a claim against mine if there is a legal basis for it). He argued for a long time against that which I didn't understand until... "I don't have insurance"

I ended the conversation there and then. Explained that not only do we have no legal contract together (I rented the space to the final client who hired a event planner, who hired the DJ) but that it's his responsibility to have insurance and I wont pay for him not having one...

In response I received a phone call from his lawyer last night who argued that I was legally obliged to pay (he had a lot of trouble explaining on what contract such responsibility was written since I didn't hire him) and then mistakenly blurted out that he didn't have any contract with anyone since he was hired under the table and didn't even have a company for his business... Probably not the best lawyer

So long story short, I don't know if anything was actually damaged and will probably never find out. I expect a few more menacing letters from the lawyer and maybe even a complaint at the police but legally there is nothing they can do since I am not responsible, not bound by any contract and have insurance...

So thanks for everyone's help & everyones suggestions
Case closed

 

[telectrix]

Sounds (xcuse the pun) like a good result from your perspective.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Case closed

Good for you, mate.
I hate scammers with a vengeance.