Water pipe earthing..

[Anthony16090]

Hi just after some advice
Some friends just had a new kitchen fitted, but as far as I can tell there is no main water bonding, I believe that it has to be about 600mm from the ground or there abouts.
If it’s not there will the kitchen need to come out to fit one

 

[Bobster]

Depends.

You need to test to see if it needs bonding.

 

[Ian1981]

Is the main water pipe entering the property plastic or metallic?

 

[Pete999]

Hi just after some advice
Some friends just had a new kitchen fitted, but as far as I can tell there is no main water bonding, I believe that it has to be about 600mm from the ground or there abouts.
If it’s not there will the kitchen need to come out to fit one

Regulation BS7671 544.1.2 Without quoting verbatim, bonding is to be applied to the consumers side of the meter where practicable, with 600mm of the meter outlet union, or point of entry to the building, if the meter is external.
Was the Electrical work certified by the Electrician, main bonding should be mentioned on the certificate, but then again if Kevin the Kitchen fitter did the Electrics I would doubt very much if any such certificate was issued.

 

[Pete999]

Hi just after some advice
Some friends just had a new kitchen fitted, but as far as I can tell there is no main water bonding, I believe that it has to be about 600mm from the ground or there abouts.
If it’s not there will the kitchen need to come out to fit one

Where are you in the UK?

 

[Anthony16090]

It was done by Phil the kitchen fitter.
The pipe coming in a don’t no, without moving the kick board which has been sealed in.
I thought the main earthing you needed was the water supply and the gas, unless the house was all in plastic pipes.
How do you test with a multimeter if there is no cable??
In yarm in the north east

 

[Bobster]

It was done by Phil the kitchen fitter.
The pipe coming in a don’t no, without moving the kick board which has been sealed in.
I thought the main earthing you needed was the water supply and the gas, unless the house was all in plastic pipes.
How do you test with a multimeter if there is no cable??
In yarm in the north east

Your profile suggests that you are a fully qualified electrician.

This is very basic stuff.

You wouldn't use a multimeter to test, test the pipe back to the MET.

 

[telectrix]

youmeasure between your MET (main earthing terminal and the copper pipe on your side of the stop cock. if resistance value is > 22 k Ohms, then it's not extraneous. if i't < 1 ohm, then it's bonded anyway.

 

[Pete999]

It was done by Phil the kitchen fitter.
The pipe coming in a don’t no, without moving the kick board which has been sealed in.
I thought the main earthing you needed was the water supply and the gas, unless the house was all in plastic pipes.
How do you test with a multimeter if there is no cable??
In yarm in the north east

Anthony, firstly it's not earthing water and gas, it's called main bonding.
Sounds like your Kitchen Fitter didn't know much about Electrics, so there was no certificate then? In order to test to see if the pipes have been bonded a Multimeter will not be applicable

These two videos will go some way to explain.

 

[willy fixit]

You can test between a local earth connection i.e. a socket outlet and the water service. Provided it's verified that this has a good MET connection. Saves getting the wander lead out!

 

[Pete999]

You can test between a local earth connection i.e. a socket outlet and the water service. Provided it's verified that this has a good MET connection. Saves getting the wander lead out!

Sorry Willy, don't agree with your suggestion, far to many Parallel earth paths to make an appraisal as to whether the pipe is bonded.

 

[willy fixit]

Anthony, firstly it's not earthing water and gas, it's called main bonding.
Sounds like your Kitchen Fitter didn't know much about Electrics, so there was no certificate then? In order to test to see if the pipes have been bonded a Multimeter will not be applicable

These two videos will go some way to explain.

Not seen John Ward before - Very clear and comprehensive presentation!

 

[willy fixit]

Sorry Willy, don't agree with your suggestion, far to many Parallel earth paths to make an appraisal as to whether the pipe is bonded.

Yep! Sorry - getting confused with testing for extraneous or not!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The earthing system has not been stated. If it's TNCS then testing to a local socket or other earth is not sufficient to verify compliance. If the service requires bonding then it will have to be in 10mm minimum which can only be verified by a combination of testing and visual inspection.

 

[Octopus]

I believe that it has to be about 600mm from entry to the property or

"where practical" is the very important bit missing from your knowledge.

 

[westward10]

If he cannot visually see it in the kitchen I would check the CU for any evidence of one.

 

[willy fixit]

The earthing system has not been stated. If it's TNCS then testing to a local socket or other earth is not sufficient to verify compliance. If the service requires bonding then it will have to be in 10mm minimum which can only be verified by a combination of testing and visual inspection.

Although this test would prove if the water service was not extraneous and therefore not need bonding.

 

[buzzlightyear]

The pipe coming in a don’t no, without moving the kick board which has been sealed in.

it must be excisable for any testing at a late date and verified.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

it must be excisable for any testing at a late date and verified.

Eh?

 

[buzzlightyear]

it must be accessible for any testing at a later date and to be verified It has be done .now that s better.

 

[PEG]

I am hoping all this kick-board nailing,has not covered up the stop-cock? This would or should,with a little prying,tell you what type of pipe arrived-and left,the cock. Giggerty.

 

[Midwest]

Although this test would prove if the water service was not extraneous and therefore not need bonding.

As others have said, there would be other possible parallel paths. My scheme technical guidance to test to see if a service is extraneous; would be to isolate the supply, remove EC and test between supply earth (or MET) and pipework concerned.

As an aside, with incoming plastic service and predominate internal metal (e.g. water), a test could be carried out to verify if the internal service was extraneous or not. Majority of such installations I've see, have the service bonded after the plastic. Why for so?

1. This could be that the test confirmed the pipework required bonding
2. Installer bonded, 'cos that what they have always done
3. Installer bonded, 'cos at some point, with building alterations (new plumbing), the pipe work could subsequently become extraneous, it would not be therefore bonded subsequently (i.e. by plumber)
4. If 3. happens, how do you get cable from one side of building to other, so safe bet to bond it in the first place

Is my thinking flawed?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I would always install bonding to a service regardless during major works. More minor stuff I'll use a get out clause if possible.

 

[Pete999]

A bit controversial, but all these questions about bonding, earthing seems t be coming from the Domestic side of our industry.
Does this not say something about the training given to newcomers to electrical installations, or am I over thinking the problem?

 

[Midwest]

A bit controversial, but all these questions about bonding, earthing seems t be coming from the Domestic side of our industry.
Does this not say something about the training given to newcomers to electrical installations, or am I over thinking the problem?

To be fair Pete, most domestic installers haven't the reference to refer back to within the organisation, they sometimes work alone. If I have a technical question, I ask my scheme technical. Some people come here.

Its good to talk.