Way OT: dealing with difficult production operators

[silva.foxx]

Sorry for this being well off topic but I thought I'd chance my luck for some interesting stories in this sector, as most of us deal with industrial operators.

I'm definitely nudging Tony on this one.

How do you deal with difficult machine operators?

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[sbrown2]

What sector are you in? I'm in the small automotive supplier and have to act as an operator also, but only in drastic situations. In those situations I am the difficult machine operator!!!!!!!!!

 

[silva.foxx]

Beer packaging...

we have some great operators who attempt to fault-find before we're called... but some are on the phone as soon as the machine stops... with abs. no effort!

Some will stop their m/c if running rough and just nit pick. One guy just does not believe in 'operator error' and will slam doors, throw things and generally curl his lip.

Others will keep telling us about how faults/rough running appears when we're away, and keeps stopping the machine every 5 minutes, which never occurs while we watch it.

 

[sbrown2]

Yeah, I know the feeling. The operators used to reset the machines. The you would see the power struggles develop as the one who could reset the more difficult faults would stick their chests out. Oh and then there are the one who tell you how to do your job. I love it.......... evrybody should know their limitations and I respect operators who understand this. The plant I am in now assembles tyres and wheels for a large japanese automotive manufacturer , nothing complex like yourself. But I am on a shift on me own so its plumbing, forklifts, sprinkler valves, PLCs and networks, elec etc. How about you?

 

[Knobhead]

The best tip I can give anyone is get to know the process.
I’ve worked mainly in chemical and iron industries, I made it my business to know how every machine worked. Production workers when they are not on piece work will find umpteen ways to shut a plant down so they can sit on their ar*e while your running around.
I spent a short while in ceramics, I made my mark on the first day, I’d been called to the same machine about a dozen times before I got wind of what was going on. OK I wasn’t the most popular guy in the place when I got two guys the sack for sabotaging a machine, but I had a quiet life after that.

By the way, why did you think this would be off topic? It’s a very valid point to anyone in industry.

 

[white armour]

Worked in a car body shop for a while on a robotic welding line and associated manual welding sub assemblies. Generally got on well with the operators as I did a mature apprenticeship, the guys knew I had been on the shop floor so treated me with a little more respect than the older guys with no production experience.

Knew I was in trouble when the alarm went off and they were all stood around smiling, used to ask them how long they thought it would take me to sort it out, if they said 10mins or more knew it would be a tricky one. On a couple of occasions the guys said that if I minced around the fixture for 5mins giving them an extra break they would tell me what the problem was, brilliant!

At the end of the day you need to know your kit inside out, bit of friendly banter with the operators goes a long way but you will always get the odd one that resents your position, I just used to let them get on with it, it's their choice to be miserable after all.

Regards wa

 

[sbrown2]

More importantly, I think guys like us are in the "in between" positions. We are on the shop floor with the operators and the team leaders, but we then answer to the project engineer, process engineers, and managers when machine/process changes are required (you do not get the recognition for this part of your role). I'd love to know what the extent of maintenance roles involve.

 

[Knobhead]

If you can put the voices of the “Navy Lark” in to this script you will know what I mean.

Phone rings at precisely 07-15
“Hello bagging plant here”.
“Let me guess, the stacker conveyor has stopped”.
“When you can, can you make your way over here and sort it”.
“I’ve just started cooking my breakfast, can’t it wait”.
“ Phone me back when you’ve had your brew and breakfast. Then shift the pile of crap in front of IR sensor 179”!
“OK will do skip, bagging plant out for the next 20 minutes”.

Phone rings at precisely 08-20
“don’t bother about coming over skip, it’s all running OK now!”
“I had a strange premonition about that”!

I booked the fault on my time sheet, they got 45 minutes ar*e time.

I had nothing to do with the scouts or navy, but the bagging plant charge hand was ex RN. Once we understood each other I was Skipper!

It p*ssed the f*ck out of the higher management when I walked through the door and all the guys would peel off perfect salutes! It was a total p*ss take, but bloody funny!

We had a major fire in the plant, two of the guys risked their lives to get me out of the switch room, they could have a mug of tea at anytime if I could cover it for them!

 

[silva.foxx]

By the way, why did you think this would be off topic? It’s a very valid point to anyone in industry.

... basically because it's an 'electrical' forum yet my question is more of a psychological interest. But the replies so far are appreciated. Thanks!

The operators I just can't be doing with are the ones who just don't want the kit to run, who put the machine in a fault condition or complain of running rough just to get a brew.

If I can fix their issues with no tools then I point it out then put it right. If it happens again I aim to shame them over it.

Most of the ops are like little kids, just wanting attention, wanting some company. I'll only play their games when it suits me. But as I've said I've worked with some good ops!

But I am on a shift on me own so its plumbing, forklifts, sprinkler valves, PLCs and networks, elec etc. How about you?

Quite similar. Mech, elec, elex, designer, developer, drafter, PLCs+HMIs, networking, plumbing, welding, pneu, hyd, secretary, storeman, janitor, security, etc... you know the score! "Just do what you can with anything we got and if we aint got it still do it!"

.

 

[sbrown2]

Tony who did you work for in the ceramics industry. I worked for Denby Pottery. In my role I was able to see the vast difference in the type and level of operators you can get on site. In the clay production and recycling I thought the level and knowledge level of the operators was good. But in the glaze mill and packaging area they worked in a more tightly packed area. They didn't want your company here as they babbled on between themselves. You would then have operators on the CNC machines who had to have knowledge of machine setups. I think its the same old case of you look at people, in any role, who take pride in their job and then you will assist them accordingly.

 

[Knobhead]

I was at Dyson industries, vacuum formed ceramics (nothing to do with vacuum cleaners). The permanent staff were great, it was the agency temps that were the problem.

Three of us were there on a temp contract and found ourselves in a very difficult situation. The company had 3 electricians and 6 fitters on shifts, they shunted them in to the tool room on days and brought the three of us in to cover the shifts. 1 man instead of 3 per shift. One of our three had a nervous breakdown so then we were down to two of us on 12 hours. The poor old engineering manager ended up more like a fitters mate. The MD thought it hilarious when I’m playing hell with the manager for not drifting the bolts out of a motor mounting fast enough as I burnt them off with the gas axe.

I enjoyed myself there. We got left some weird jobs for us. The other guy was an ex railway electrician, he’d have a go at anything as well. The look on his face was a picture when he came in to take me off shift and spotted a new compressor stood in the workshop. He near dropped bow legged when I told him that the 2 of us were fitting it at the weekend. He’d never done pipe fitting, he didn’t look happy with the 3” pipe and fittings. On the day we fitted it we had a couple of lads off the shop floor to help us get stuff in place, they were fantastic.

 

[sbrown2]

Its funny you start out as a spark but in these maintenance roles you end up not having the choice but to be a jack of all trades. I do realise that ,particularly now that I've been working on the side as a sparky again, that I've lost some of my electrical skills that I never used to have to think about. I will say I've been working in the commercial sector for myself and by using maintenance as a title instead of electrical I am most probably making more money. The three hotels I work for like the fact I put my hand to anything but gas (although I've worked on gas in the factories!!)

 

[Knobhead]

I class myself as multi skilled.
I can weld, burn, turn, shape, mill, pipe fitting, general fitting, hydraulics and do the odd bit of electrical from heavy power to PLC programming. Just don’t put me near wood, it’ll split before I touch it!
It’s made for an interesting and enjoyable time.

 

[vaughant]

Some great responses again on here.
I worked in the now closed Ford Plant in Swansea and there were some exceptional sabotaeurs there.
I remember one guy who was bonkers cutting through a proxy cable while we were rammed desperately to make transit rear axles cos he wanted a tea break,not good when the foreman asks how it happenned and your trying to repair it with chock blocks!!!
Another classic was dropping bolts down a plastic conveyor on the assembly line,this was great for production as it was realistically a 2-3 hour job and due to H&S impossible to run while being repaired.
Me and my mate quickly found a way round it by lifting the pallets at an angle,jogging the conveyor while we spliced into the old damaged track,the jog would remove the bad and refit the good.
We put all guards onto wingnuts for quick removal,multiplugged the motor and put a 2 hr job down to about 15 mins.

A good operator is priceless but a bad can be incredibly costly.

 

[Engineer54]

During my time and training with FoMoCo, i can remember that Everything that could be replaced was on screw-fit metal industrial multi pin plug and sockets, from motors to limit switches (of which there were tens of thousands of..lol!!) All those limit switches and proximity switches and the like, were held in place with a purpose made spring cross bar and wing nut secured. There was also replacement units of every type for a given system or machine, hanging on bracket's at the locations. So down times always kept to a minimum. The lads used to get an hours overtime 3 times a week, going round testing them all with an in house made test box...

In fact as i remember, almost everything that could stop a production line had some form of redundant unit ready to be put into service. One i can remember was the overhead transportation hoist & tractor units that transported the car bodies from the floor level to the raised level production lines. when one failed it was pushed or driven into a sliding maintenance bay as the stand-by unit was brought out in it's sequence place, onto the system to take it's place.

Those tractor hoists were supplied via a bus bar track in a loop, ...4 bars on the running sections and 7 bars at the hoist locations. Running sections incorporated dead sections to allow for cars to be stacked up waiting for calling in sequence to the hoist positions.


Haha, just brought back a lot of memories of those days...

 

[Knobhead]

Engineer54, is that a DrysysKING transport system? Sounds very much like it. They were a nightmare!

 

[Knobhead]

Must introduce you all to Ivan, he could wreck, mange and mutilate anything!

I put in a PB station at the side of a railway line, 7’ high, 3” dia, and painted bright yellow with black stripes. The concrete hadn’t even set before he ripped it out the ground with a front-end loader! I wasn’t bothered about the post but he ripped my bloody cable apart! “I didn’t see it, it wasn’t there yesterday!”

 

[Engineer54]

Engineer54, is that a DrysysKING transport system? Sounds very much like it. They were a nightmare!

No clue Tony, it was a very long time ago, and the system had been installed since the very early 50's. As far as i can remember it hadn't been modified over the years to any extent either, apart from everything that was replaceable like motors, hoist, etc were via plug and socket off the track pick-up units, which had also been modified for easy release off of the bus bar track running guide.

These systems were very reliable and rarely broke down. They were serviced and/or maintained every weekend, such as limits on hoist checked for correct top stop and saftey stop positions, hoist steel ropes checked for broken strands and replaced if the count number was higher than allowed etc, etc...

Just before i left the company, i was part of the design team for a complete new system that was replacing one of these old one's. The main difference electrically was the the drive and hoist motors were 3 phase 48volt!!! the old were all 3 phase 440volt. Didn't see the thing working until about 18 months after i left, when i went back to see some old mates. But was told they hadn't had any major problems with it since it was installed during one of there 3 week 24 hr working shut downs....

 

[Knobhead]

Engineer56 was it anything like this. Sorry this is a photo from another site.

 

[vaughant]

To engineer 54,did you do your apprenticeship with Fo Mo Co then or just a bit of training and served your time elsewhere?I thought it was an excellent apprenticeship as it covered all bases,I did mech/elec which I loved as I'm probably a better fitter than a spark!!!

 

[Engineer54]

Did almost ALL my training with them, from their own in-house trade school, sponsored night collage 3 x a week, and finally a 4 year sandwich degree, and a full time conversion year, which was actually about 8 months.... Obviously, also lot's of in factory shop floor training during school closures/holidays and the like!!! Like yourself, we were level trained in most of the maintenance disciplines, giving you a good across the board understanding of how all the systems integrate...


Compared with today Vaughant, a training to die for!! Most of the guys i did my training with, went on to better things, one later became the Assembly Plant Manager no less ...lol!!!
I would have loved to of stayed in a way, ...but just couldn't get on with those 3 shift cycles they wanted to put me on ...far to young to be dong shift work. ..lol!!!. I'd already spent most of my early years studying, while mates were out enjoying themselves. ....3 months later i was starting my first overseas contract, commissioning and then maintaining for the contractors warranty period, a smallish 80 bed medical centre, attached to a University medical faculty....

 

[Engineer54]

Engineer56 was it anything like this. Sorry this is a photo from another site.

Can't really make out the transport system in your photo, ...lol!!! but ours was based on a single central H beam. The tractor unit was push mode, with the single rubber driven wheel on the under flat, of the H beam. ....Does that make sense?? lol!!!

 

[Knobhead]

It’s the best photo I could find at the time, will try and find better. This system was continuous chain driven. If you can imagine a rail points system switching several tracks driven by just one chain, the chain looped all around to get it in line with the drive required. I will try and get some better photo’s. I know DrysysKING did several systems for Fords.

I left that particular plant and went in to another industry. On my first day there I near did a runner, a DK system again!

When the chain system was running OK it was no problem, if it went wrong GOD HELP you! When you have to get a crane in to sort out a drop section that’s decided to put something down when the load beam is only half on the section, you knew you were in for a bad day.

 

[Knobhead]

I did mech/elec which I loved as I'm probably a better fitter than a spark!!!

I’m resurrecting this thread because I came across this drawing.

View attachment 7199

The pulse generator was made entirely out of scrap I found lying around.

Like you Ford lads I went through all maintenance departments, OK I’m electrical, but then fitting, machining, welding and generally belting the hell out of it until it worked came in to it!
Other than mining I’ve been in the harshest of environments. Quarrying and Iron, things just fell apart!
Once in the iron industry it became obvious I was the only person in the workshop that could use all the machines in there. All the “old boys” had retired.
One episode that tickled me was having two senior engineers watching me. Electrical engineer to Mechanical engineer “bloody good isn’t it, 4 fitters stood around waiting for an electrician to cut a f**king key way!” The plant was shut down but I was enjoying myself!

 

[leelika08]

Worked in a car body shop for a while on a robotic welding line and associated manual welding sub assemblies. Generally got on well with the operators as I did a mature apprenticeship, the guys knew I had been on the shop floor so treated me with a little more respect than the older guys with no production experience.

Knew I was in trouble when the alarm went off and they were all stood around smiling, used to ask them how long they thought it would take me to sort it out, if they said 10mins or more knew it would be a tricky one. On a couple of occasions the guys said that if I minced around the fixture for 5mins giving them an extra break they would tell me what the problem was, brilliant!

At the end of the day you need to know your kit inside out, bit of friendly banter with the operators goes a long way but you will always get the odd one that resents your position, I just used to let them get on with it, it's their choice to be miserable after all.

Regards wa

More importantly, I think guys like us are in the "in between" positions. We are on the shop floor with the operators and the team leaders, but we then answer to the project engineer, process engineers, and managers when machine/process changes are required (you do not get the recognition for this part of your role). I'd love to know what the extent of maintenance roles involve.
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