What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on him? | on ElectriciansForums

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Ive been working in a factory the past few weeks, and the owner of the place happens to be mates with another spark. Or "sparky"

The other guy doesn't have part p and im not 100% he's fully qualified.

It got me thinking, what could happen if he got found out by someone? Is there someone to find out he's working like this?!

Im sure its not a police matter?!

This is of course presuming his work is safe and such, I've seen some of his work and its done to regs (from what i can see) naturally if the cowboys work is dangerous and someone gets hurt then hes obviously in alot of trouble...
 
Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

If it's carrying out work in a factory then no, part p is irrelevant. If he is carrying out work to 17th ed standard then he would be classed as competent. Competent or qualified is all the BGB requires. Qualified is preferable as it allegedly shows competency! As long as you can prove it's been done to regs standard or above then there isn't an issue. It's when someone thinks they know what they are doing and deviates from the regs that's when the problems start. Out in Oz we have to be licensed and qualified.
 
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Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

Garry, you must have your cowboys (stockherders) out there. What happens them them if they get caught ?.

We have cowboys here but they are only on the ranches! All new builds are strictly controlled and licences have to be produced and registered when on site. You cannot advertise out here as an electrical fitter of any description (even vehicles) without the correct registration and licence. To put into terms for UK sparks we have house bashing licence, Commercial licence and Industrial licence. HV stuff is run by the energy suppliers and requires training. Everything you do is recorded and filed against you so that if something does go wrong it is traceable. You cannot purchase equipment from the wholesaler or supplier without producing your licence. B&Q type outlets are not allowed, you want electrical work doing you have to get a registered spark in who will carry out the work to Australia and New Zealand wiring regs standard. And yes your work can be inspected at random, if anything found lacking your licence will be revoked and you will have to take "remedial" training along with the trades testing at your expense. Get caught trading without licence and it's jail time over here, they understand that electricity is a silent killer and come down very hard on people who are found to evade the system. Draconian I know, but it works! You also have to renew your licence every five years in Queensland to show that you are up to date with regs and and technology.
 
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Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

OP thats the trouble with the industry - theres nothing you can do until he hurts someone unfortunatley - then he'll go to prison on manslaughter charges.

Its up to the client to employ someone who is competent/qualified.
 
Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

We have cowboys here but they are only on the ranches! All new builds are strictly controlled and licences have to be produced and registered when on site. You cannot advertise out here as an electrical fitter of any description (even vehicles) without the correct registration and licence. To put into terms for UK sparks we have house bashing licence, Commercial licence and Industrial licence. HV stuff is run by the energy suppliers and requires training. Everything you do is recorded and filed against you so that if something does go wrong it is traceable. You cannot purchase equipment from the wholesaler or supplier without producing your licence. B&Q type outlets are not allowed, you want electrical work doing you have to get a registered spark in who will carry out the work to Australia and New Zealand wiring regs standard. And yes your work can be inspected at random, if anything found lacking your licence will be revoked and you will have to take "remedial" training along with the trades testing at your expense. Get caught trading without licence and it's jail time over here, they understand that electricity is a silent killer and come down very hard on people who are found to evade the system. Draconian I know, but it works! You also have to renew your licence every five years in Queensland to show that you are up to date with regs and and technology.

If only we could take a leaf out of the aussies book!
 
Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

We have cowboys here but they are only on the ranches! All new builds are strictly controlled and licences have to be produced and registered when on site. You cannot advertise out here as an electrical fitter of any description (even vehicles) without the correct registration and licence. To put into terms for UK sparks we have house bashing licence, Commercial licence and Industrial licence. HV stuff is run by the energy suppliers and requires training. Everything you do is recorded and filed against you so that if something does go wrong it is traceable. You cannot purchase equipment from the wholesaler or supplier without producing your licence. B&Q type outlets are not allowed, you want electrical work doing you have to get a registered spark in who will carry out the work to Australia and New Zealand wiring regs standard. And yes your work can be inspected at random, if anything found lacking your licence will be revoked and you will have to take "remedial" training along with the trades testing at your expense. Get caught trading without licence and it's jail time over here, they understand that electricity is a silent killer and come down very hard on people who are found to evade the system. Draconian I know, but it works! You also have to renew your licence every five years in Queensland to show that you are up to date with regs and and technology.

This would certainly mean that a spark would get the going rate and have the clout deserved by years of training and experience, make alot of sense in many ways................this should be sent to the powers that be to implement in the UK
 
Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

problem is with a licence system here in the UK is it would end up backfiring on us sparks here....mission creep and all that......would end up costing a fortune and a lot of paperwork, coupled with the Tickets/C&G getting changed/renamed every 3 years.....you would be all logged up on a database, and if you didn't fork out a remortgage on your house to pay for 8 new tickets and qualifications every year, they would just pull your licence on the computer instantly.....then after working as a spark for 28 years you would be pumped onto the dole.....
It would also come up "licence revoked" on your file/records....try explaining that to a potential employer or recruitment agency...it would be an employment death sentence signed by yourself for not having the ÂŁÂŁÂŁÂŁÂŁÂŁ and time to keep up on all the "Amendments" and "Updates".....the "scheme" providers , Agencies and "training providers" would go into a feeding frenzy and it would end up like being dropped into a tank of pirhanas by the tap of a scheme provider toe on the old floor switch...


step to the right all those without the 18th edition and the 2357.....a little more (strokes cat)...a little more....ah that will do....(buzz clunk gurgle gurgle gurgle) ahaha ahaha ahaha ha ha .....next...



Do they keep asking for more and more tickets and "Updating" versions of Training in Australia like they do here? (Almost annualy)


or do they leave you alone once you have your licence, with the exception of a trade test every 5 years or so....like I imagine they do....??????


I bet is not like here...
 
Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

Can anybody here imagine working on a large site for 8 months, then getting a tap on the shoulder from the Gaffer at 20 past 10 in the morning......sorry Bud I just got a system message email this morning.....you'r Licence is up ........"can I just finish the day out then?"....sorry no Bud we have to sack you as your Licence is void.....no insurance and all that.....no hard feelings....."ok then I'll head off after tea time".....no I need you off site right now...."I can't afford to redo my tickets"....not my prblem bud, maybe you should get a job in a burger bar...haha haha haha beat it....the office will post your P45 when the woman gets round to it....


Then the licences will come in for joiners, painters, Brickies, cleaners...etc....and it will end up like eastern Europe in the 1970's.....

The Australian system appears to have been set up years ago as they were getting a lot of sparks and builders in from overseas (i.e the UK ) and wanted to make sure that they didn't just come in and start trading but would have to get a licence beforehand....this made sure that they were changing their ways to fit in with the Australian wiring regulations when they emigrated there.....and it has just remained that way as it was the best fit for Australia....
The use of a Licence system here would just get turned against sparks, Apprentices would also get shafted here as their employer would stick them on a "provisional" licence and would just refuse to sign off on their apprenticeship so that they were knackered if they wanted to jump ship after getting time served...if they annoyed their first employer, then they would get pumped minus the licence and that would be them on the scrap heap...

I know a lot of us sparks are raging that we can't get the work we want where we want it and the money we want to earn into the bank account and we think to ourselves "if only there was a licence, there would be less of us and therefore more money for me and stuff the rest of them" but things don't work out like that, especailly in the UK....where what is made to look like an amazing good thing always gets sharpened up and turned against us....


I wouldn't try to put any ideas about licences into the gov'ts heads or we will all be stressing over membership fees, course fees, making an error when bamboozled by red tape and paperwork etc.....if that lot think that they can do it and it will make us all pay more tax, or at least satisfy them that we are paying the tax for what we declare, as face it they think that we are all cheating them...then they will do it with great delight...



Think about it, I have......look past the furious anger about not getting paid what you want.....and not getting full time continuous work......have a think about the hassle you would have with a licenced system here.......you forget to pay a membership fee....or cannot afford to go on a "refresher course" until next month because you are waiting on money you are owed coming in.....they pull your licence, any self employed work you are on gets left unfinished (and you get sued by the customer(s) for the cost of another spark completing) then you get booted off your dayjob because the licence is up...any wages owed remain unpaid because "you're not a real spark anyway how dare you have the audacity to ask for owed wages" and you lose the house due to either missing the mortgage or the amount you get sued for by private customers...

you eventually borrow some money, update your certs, re- apply for your licence (which I am guessing will be lots of form filling and fees, as well as taking weeks) then when you get your new card in....."sorry bud I looked at your work file and it says you got licence revoked 5 months ago" I just can't risk giving you a job....maybe somebody else will....good luck and all that.....the doors over there.....
 
Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

Wow, I hear what you say, but so negative. So we sit here in our own little hovells wringing our hands Saying "What if, What if". We have to start somewhere and taking a page from the Aussie Book or even the whole book might not be a bad idea.
 
Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

There are no schemes over here! It is run by the relevant state government and is very effective. It isn't expensive to do your 5 year test $66 to apply! Linky to the Queensland DoJa site to give you a view! Seriously guys you can trade for about 3 months without a licence provided you have an expired licence! Longer than twelve months and it becomes "awkward"!
Renew your electrical licence - Department of Justice and Attorney-General
 
Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

This could be the right way ,if the Aussies have sorted it out ,and seems to work ,why can,t the powers that be in the UK do something,it would be good for the trade,AND !! maybe a proper RATE !!!
 
Re: What could happen to a cowboy spark if found out despite nothing going wrong on h

Can anybody here imagine working on a large site for 8 months, then getting a tap on the shoulder from the Gaffer at 20 past 10 in the morning......sorry Bud I just got a system message email this morning.....you'r Licence is up ........"can I just finish the day out then?"....sorry no Bud we have to sack you as your Licence is void.....no insurance and all that.....no hard feelings....."ok then I'll head off after tea time".....no I need you off site right now...."I can't afford to redo my tickets"....not my prblem bud, maybe you should get a job in a burger bar...haha haha haha beat it....the office will post your P45 when the woman gets round to it....


Then the licences will come in for joiners, painters, Brickies, cleaners...etc....and it will end up like eastern Europe in the 1970's.....

The Australian system appears to have been set up years ago as they were getting a lot of sparks and builders in from overseas (i.e the UK ) and wanted to make sure that they didn't just come in and start trading but would have to get a licence beforehand....this made sure that they were changing their ways to fit in with the Australian wiring regulations when they emigrated there.....and it has just remained that way as it was the best fit for Australia....
The use of a Licence system here would just get turned against sparks, Apprentices would also get shafted here as their employer would stick them on a "provisional" licence and would just refuse to sign off on their apprenticeship so that they were knackered if they wanted to jump ship after getting time served...if they annoyed their first employer, then they would get pumped minus the licence and that would be them on the scrap heap...

I know a lot of us sparks are raging that we can't get the work we want where we want it and the money we want to earn into the bank account and we think to ourselves "if only there was a licence, there would be less of us and therefore more money for me and stuff the rest of them" but things don't work out like that, especailly in the UK....where what is made to look like an amazing good thing always gets sharpened up and turned against us....


I wouldn't try to put any ideas about licences into the gov'ts heads or we will all be stressing over membership fees, course fees, making an error when bamboozled by red tape and paperwork etc.....if that lot think that they can do it and it will make us all pay more tax, or at least satisfy them that we are paying the tax for what we declare, as face it they think that we are all cheating them...then they will do it with great delight...



Think about it, I have......look past the furious anger about not getting paid what you want.....and not getting full time continuous work......have a think about the hassle you would have with a licenced system here.......you forget to pay a membership fee....or cannot afford to go on a "refresher course" until next month because you are waiting on money you are owed coming in.....they pull your licence, any self employed work you are on gets left unfinished (and you get sued by the customer(s) for the cost of another spark completing) then you get booted off your dayjob because the licence is up...any wages owed remain unpaid because "you're not a real spark anyway how dare you have the audacity to ask for owed wages" and you lose the house due to either missing the mortgage or the amount you get sued for by private customers...

you eventually borrow some money, update your certs, re- apply for your licence (which I am guessing will be lots of form filling and fees, as well as taking weeks) then when you get your new card in....."sorry bud I looked at your work file and it says you got licence revoked 5 months ago" I just can't risk giving you a job....maybe somebody else will....good luck and all that.....the doors over there.....

The above is exactly what will happen

Can't see why you are so against this unless you can't make the grade

The Aussie licence fees seem quite reasonable if this licence system was brought in no doubt the fees for us would be well beyond reasonable no doubt with the NIC or one of the others running it

How different the industry would be without any of the parasitic organisations taking money for nothing and going back to a properly qualified industry with decent rates. We can only dream
 

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