What do i do?

[TPES]

Hi all

I have a problem, Not sure the correct way to go about it.

Ive been asked to inspect and test a extension on a bungalow and issue a certificate, The original electrician has cancer and is no longer in business. The building control officer was'nt happy with some of the work he had done, So ive been asked to put it right and issue a cert by the customer, The local building control officer would prefer me to issue a EIC and get the original spark to sign the parts on design and construction and i sign the inspect and test box.

But the original spark can not be contacted and is off the scene, So as a last resort the LABC will accept a PIR.

The original sparky had relocated the consumer unit into the newbuild part of the extension and has joined out every leg and extended to the new place of the CU. Only problem is he has joined out the RFC with 6mm T&E and all the joints have been burried in the wall, So there is a number of RFC around the house then all joined out in the wall and then a single 6mm T&E back to the board.

As the consumer unit has been changed i will be expected to inspect and test every circuit and NOT just the circuits in the newly build extension. (I'm assuming)

My technical helpline have told me i cant just test the RFC's as radials and need to test as RFC's, But how?? if i have no way of getting to both ends of the RFC?

How would i test this and record my results on the PIR? I was told i could put a CODE 3 on these circuits, But i cant see the LABC accepting this ?


Theres abit of confusion between me, the LABC, tech helpline and the customer on how to solve a number of issues...

Im not sure what to do for the best

 

[pennywise]

Test them at a socket. Split the ring at the socket then this gives you the ends of the ring.

 

[solo2771]

Test them at a socket. Split the ring at the socket then this gives you the ends of the ring.

If you can't get to the ends yu can't prove its a ring
How can you overcome this from socket?
Paul

 

[TPES]

Yeah that was my obvious thought, but i will have to test the number of meters of 6mm wont i?

 

[solo2771]

oh sorry just sussed you can lol
been a long day

 

[pennywise]

As long as both legs from the original ring are connected to the 6mm this then becomes a socket in affect with the 6mm being a spur off the ring to the board. Splitting up the legs at a socket anywhere on the existing ring would enable you to make end to end readings. sorry wrote that before I saw your post ^. Just take your normal end to end readings the 6mm will be taken into that reading it's only a spur. I would be more interested as to what method he used to join the 6mm to the ring.

 

[solo2771]

use the socket as youwould the cu. end to end then r1+ r2 then insulation, dont forget the 6mm though.
Paul

 

[stef]

Hi mate,

you can't do an EIC anyway since you didn't do the installation, all you can do is issuing a PIR.
What you can't check without either removing floor boards or chisseling up walls, write it down in the exclusions or notes section. You cannot possible measure out junction boxes underneath floor boards or extended wiring with the wrong size cable etc.

PIRs are always a bit tricky if you don't know the exact details of the installation

 

[Davey101]

Never seen this problem with the rfc's before, I'd be interested to know what actual regulations it breaks.
Very strange way to extend the ring, I can understand the temptation, but you just wouldnt, would you?

* Just re-read the OP, and realised that several rings have been joined to one 6mm. Can't see anyway that you could get this past building control to be honest. Would be much better to rewire it properly, you can get it passed off, and the customer gets a properly wired house.

*You can do an EIC even if you haven't done the wiring. Although its slightly different to this case, we regulary test our jobs which may have had 20+ sparks doing the install (as well as 2 or 3 testers). You just sign the testing section, not that this is an option for you though.

 

[TPES]

Never seen this problem with the rfc's before, I'd be interested to know what actual regulations it breaks.
Very strange way to extend the ring, I can understand the temptation, but you just wouldnt, would you?

Ive found this a few times on installs in the past, Its more than likely electricians that dont do any testing that do this, as they are unaware of what complications it causes when testing..

I also think its very poor of the original electrician in this case to bury the connections in the wall so there not accessible. I dont feel happy about putting my name to anything on this job really, but there must be a way to cover my back side

* Just re-read the OP, and realised that several rings have been joined to one 6mm. Can't see anyway that you could get this past building control to be honest. Would be much better to rewire it properly, you can get it passed off, and the customer gets a properly wired house.

Not several rings to one 6mm,

Theres about 5 x 6mm's in the board into 32a mcb's each one.. these were once in/out RFC when the CU was in its original position. so i would assume the spark has put 2 x 2.5mm & 1 x 6mm into one JB.. But this could have been done in a completely different way... I dont know how there joined.. Buried in the wall.

 

[flukey]

think i would want to open the wall up and have a look if i was putting my name to it

 

[ajelec10]

I call this type of circuit a lollipop! as you have a feeder from the cu and a ring from that if you get my thinking?? i can't see anything wrong electrically with this as we do it when we install DC immune RCD's we go from the MCB/Dis board via 4mm singles in to the RCD (which is separate to the Dis board in its own enclosure) and take the ring from there as it would be point less to run two 2.5's?
The only concern is that its not an accepted standard wiring practice especially in a standard domestic property, we would all try and stick to the same methods then if any other spark comes along he can work out what the previous sparks done?
As for the concealed junctions you must investigate further as to how these have been made as they are concealed they need to be terminated by either crimps, soldering, or braising. i suspect just a 30A jb buried in wall which is not acceptable, I would dig all connections out try to move them to an accessible position or reconnect them using any of above methods.
As for the certification i feel you can issue what ever you feel comfortable with an eic would be fine just use it to your advantage and state on there exactly what you have done and what you haven't this will cover you, as the situation your in needs to be sorted, its better someone who is qualified finishes it and certs it to the best standard as far as reasonable practicable. Iam sure the labc will under stand and work with you on this one (well you would hope so)
Hope this helps

AJ