What percentage of Sparks voted Brexit?

[JK-Electrical]

@Spin - Socialism as most people would like to understand it does not really exist in a modern western world due to the international capitalistic frame we are all part of therefore any arguments about it working in this country or that are flawed from the off.

@JK - Venezuela is arguably an example of socialism failure although there is a failure of the government that has worsened the crisis, many people counter any criticism of the Socialist setup been the cause by throwing the oil price crash into the loop which on reflection seems a very reasonable argument to make as 95% of exports was oil and that was 25% of the economy, but here is the thing, when prices rose and recovered somewhat back up in 2017 it should have seen the country gaining traction and getting back out of the mess it was in but it didn't and this in part is directly to do with the socialist model, in fact the economy carried on in decline, there are many interesting negatives about taking over all your industries and one is investment and external support, if you think about it, which company is going to go in looking for new oil deposits knowing that when they find any the government will just take over, this analogy is true with many aspects of socialism, it pushes away the very people that can invest in your economy, boost it and push up living standards, when you are sheltered under a capitalist umbrella then at least you are protected from the rain to some degree.

In sum, socialism spends what capitalism earns.

 

[Darkwood]

I understand the figure now stands at 6500 refused entry.
Of course without access to ECRIS we would not have known to refuse those 6500 entry
.

You make a large assumption that we would lose access but the reality suggests otherwise, given the UK has the best intelligence and security database like already mentioned by a large margin and gives more than we ever receive and also that Interpol is external international body with which we are all members then why would they risk there own security by stopping access to the ECRIS database, they are relying heavily on the UK to build there limited database up.
I will add that on leaving we get to control the borders, you will have to apply to come and stay in the UK where relevant checks are automatically done on your criminal background and not as it stands at the moment where you have a valid passport so come on in and stay, this fact is strengthened by the agreed position of people already in the UK who may want to apply to stay post Brexit, one of the conditions is a criminal background check.

 

[JK-Electrical]

You make a large assumption that we would lose access but the reality suggests otherwise, given the UK has the best intelligence and security database like already mentioned by a large margin and gives more than we ever receive and also that Interpol is external international body with which we are all members then why would they risk there own security by stopping access to the ECRIS database, they are relying heavily on the UK to build there limited database up.
I will add that on leaving we get to control the borders, you will have to apply to come and stay in the UK where relevant checks are automatically done on your criminal background and not as it stands where you have a valid passport so come on in and stay, this fact is strengthened by the agreed position of people already in the UK who may want to apply to stay, one of the conditions is a criminal background check.

Watch: Govanhill raids target criminal gang suspected of benefit scam worth £4.6m - http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/16391082.watch-govanhill-raids-target-criminal-gang-suspected-of-benefit-scam-worth-46m

The criminal gang involved in the benefit fraud are of different nationalities. Prior to the raids, leaflets were prepared in a variety of languages to inform people in the area of the action carried out by Police Scotland.

Govanhill is probably the most diverse community in Scotland. There are over 50 languages currently spoken. What we will find is a range of nationalities involved in our executive action.

 

[Hoon]

@darkwood

I’m not a socialist. I believe In capitalism. It’s not a perfect system but its better than anything else we have.
But if you believe we live in a true capitalist society then you are wrong

There’s nothing “free” about our markets.
They are heavy manipulated, and controlled.
We oppress halve the world just too keep us in a materialistic fairy tale, where we can believe everything is ok, as long as we have the latest smart phone.

And if you want statistics on how our system as it stands is currently failing then just take a look at
1)the Gina coefficient
2)child mortality rates
3) hospital waiting times
4) the cost of care
5)the cost of housing
6) child obesity rates
7) real living wages
8) the use of foods banks
9) etc

We can go on and on. The simple fact is for the first time we now have a generation that will be worse of than their parents.


If you truly believe we are better of , carrying on with the status quo than yes, you are a “moron”

If you believe that stopping immagation will improve our lot, than yes you are a “moron”.


If you believe big corporations pay their fair taxes you are not only a Moran but you are a traitor to future generations.

Simple fact is, we was in a sinking ship inside the Eu, now we are in stormy waters with only Donald’s trump love rod as a buoyancy aid.

 

[andyb]

@darkwood

I’m not a socialist. I believe In capitalism. It’s not a perfect system but its better than anything else we have.
But if you believe we live in a true capitalist society then you are wrong

You can be both, I am. The opposite to capitalism is communism.

Capitalism is good, any self employed electrician is one, but you need the state to reel in the excessive practicies and greed of unbridled capitalism.

We're all socialist when we choose to be, if you need hospital treatment, to educate our kids, even the rabid capitalists of the city suddenly discovered socialism when they needed us after the financial crises in 2008.

 

[andyb]

In sum, socialism spends what capitalism earns.

So let me guess JK, you were born in a private hospital, educated privatley, live on a private estate paying for the up keep. I could go on but I'm sure you get my point.

The opposite to socialism is not capitalism, it's individualism.
And you're welcome to that.

 

[Des 56]

Who said the future of the younger generation was not hijacked by us oldies who paid no regard to their future ?

Over 45,voted out,you should be ashamed of yourselves

 

[plugsandsparks]

Ha, i love this stuff. So the population with the most experience in the world vote out and the ones who have only just spit the dummy out vote remain and thats really relevant to justify a second referendum.... lol

 

[stuarth]

This is the problem atm with any discussion, if you don't agree with someone then you insult them, this is the second time

Over 45,voted out,you should be ashamed of yourselves

you have said that which is a shame because you started with something that looks like the start of a factual intelligent argument, I learnt my lesson not to allow silly comments into a discussion.
Please explain why everyone over 45 who voted out should be ashamed? and why everyone over 45 who voted in should not be ashamed?
I reached my decision about leaving many years ago based on what I learnt from reading papers & listening to the radio as well as talking with others who disagreed and real life experiences observing the changes in our country and politicians. In the past 10-20 years the EU has become less democratic and more about grabbing power from sovereign states and bringing about a political ideology than looking after the best interests of the European population. Heres a quick fact for you " Michel Barnier says the EU needs a 'common foreign policy and common defence' - despite Nick Clegg warning that the idea of an EU army was a 'dangerous fantasy' " both men can be viewed making their comments here and here, I could start digging around and researching more actual facts to support my opinion that we as a nation would better out of the EU super state but I have many better things to do.

 

[andyb]

This is the problem atm with any discussion, if you don't agree with someone then you insult them,

Hardly an insult Stuarth, bit silly but not insulting.

If you want to find insults in this thread you don't have to look very far.

I was correct that it was obviously to complicated for some to understand

If thats too complicated I am sure there are some knowledgable people here who could explain it to you in small words so you and your fellow remoaners can understand

typical of a small but vocal minority of self satisfied bigots who think that their view is the only legitimate view allowed.

 

[MDJ]

Who said the future of the younger generation was not hijacked by us oldies who paid no regard to their future ?

Over 45,voted out,you should be ashamed of yourselves

Hi Des,

A good graph, I think this shows how we as a nation are changing actually. People these days are just so much different than those of us over 45, the people over 45 were brought up in a different world, a world without credit, a world where most of us had a black and white telly or no telly at all, no computers, no 24 hour live news, no fake news 24-7, playing outside not inside, the youngsters today have to build their futures, it isn't for us over 50 we have had our chance and made the world what it is now, wars in the middle east, poverty, gangs and terrorism pretty much the norm now, we created a lot of it, the north south divide, Scotland getting more per head than the rest of the UK, we did it, the youngsters can change it, I voted to remain, but am now an outy, purely due to the French treating us like rubbish when we lost a million men rescuing them twice from the Germans their new best mates.

So come on youngsters show us you can make a better tommorrow.

 

[telectrix]

the under 25's are too young to remember what damage the EU has done to this country since the 70's. since the 50's we were trading with the rest of the world and our economy was going from strength to strength.soon as we joined the common market we have been subsidising most of europe's crap economies, remember the butter mountains and wine lakes that existed to maintain high prices for ineffficient lazy surrender monkey farmers with 3 sheep and 2 cows?

 

[andyb]

the under 25's are too young to remember what damage the EU has done to this country since the 70's. since the 50's we were trading with the rest of the world and our economy was going from strength to strength.soon as we joined the common market we have been subsidising most of europe's crap economies, remember the butter mountains and wine lakes that existed to maintain high prices for ineffficient lazy surrender monkey farmers with 3 sheep and 2 cows?

Well tel, since the 70's this country has prospered and got richer and richer. We're the 5th richest country in the world.
This was achieved while in the EU.
And just to help you out a little, we actually do trade with the rest of the world, where did you get the idea that we don't?

 

[FatAlan]

‘Get back control of our borders’ We can already do that but choose not do because of cost. Do you honestly think that when we leave the government are going to magic up the money to Police UK borders? We don’t even have the resources to detect who’s nicking your tools. Do you honestly think Boris and his Eton cronies give a damn about the honest working person. They are in it for themselves and just playing to the nationalist agenda. FWIW I am a Euro sceptic and voted out but I’m very worried about the way things are playing out at the moment.

 

[telectrix]

our mining industry really prospered when the Germans started selling us coal cheaper than we could produce it,