When to upgrade a incoming supply?

[Dunc]

Just after some thoughts from you guys. Working on a job at the moment where the loads on the supply are increasing daily! Currently have a standard 100A single phase supply in but the customer is having a gym installed including a steam room, sunbed and two air con units (16A each). The next phase of the project involves garden lighting and a swimming pool and this is already on top of a house with 3 bloody ovens, 4 fridges/freezers and enough incandescent lighting with a draw big enough to boil a kettle or two!

I'm starting to think that a 100A 3P supply is needed but just wandering if you boys would be thinking the same or would you be looking at other alternatives.

 

[Darkwood]

You need to way up all preposed loading with 3ph in mind as balancing will reduce metered costs then submit a online enquiry for upgrade to your area network provider which may take up to 6weeks to get a costing (enquiry usually free), then in the mean time weigh up seperate the costing of upgrading install and balancing existing loads where required.
P.s. it can be alot of work for no return so talk to customer first and see if you can submit a charge as you may have to get street layouts, boundery info and who owns local roads etc if private (permissions thus needed if private land).

 

[Dunc]

The only way to split up the supply will be very crude. The house would be on 1 phase, the garage/gym on another and the garden/swimming pool on the third. Do the suppliers ever install 2 separate supplies on the same phase to a property. Never seen it in 10 years in the trade but someone might...

 

[Darkwood]

You can submit a enquiry for a seperate supply into gym, its done often for the likes of landlords dividing premises etc but you end up paying 2 sets of tarriffs for the 2 meters even before electricity is billed so long term is expensive and money down drain for owner, a 100amp 3ph supply supply is the way to go and your job is to maintain it is balanced as best it can or again it will cost owner with wasted money down drain. Look into trying to balance the whole property over the 3ph a it will pay for itself eventually, if gym or poolhouse isnt been used then your method would have 1phase loaded and excessive out of balance to other phases wasting electric.

 

[Knobhead]

if gym or poolhouse isnt been used then your method would have 1phase loaded and excessive out of balance to other phases wasting electric.

Why would it waste electricity?
1KW is 1KW which ever phase it’s on.

 

[Farmelectrics]

advise your customer to get in touch with the supply company them selves about a 3 phase supply dont do it your self i done it once for a guy who had sun bed shops i was never of phone chasing it up going to there office direct etc at my cost lesson learnt do the work in doors and leave him to sort it out

 

[Darkwood]

Why would it waste electricity?
1KW is 1KW which ever phase it’s on.

The OP has discussed having a pool etc, this will more than likely have pumping systems etc, now using 3ph systems will reduce cost of pump, running costs as they are more efficient and in general last longer, as well as thinking about other 3ph items too (air con, heating etc), yes agree 1kw is 1kw what ever phase its on but im probably way ahead of the curve here, systems are already in used where load logging over 3phase is done for more accurate data measurements and connected to the net' and im sure their is talk of a smaller domestic and commercial set-ups where having a better balanced system in future will be rewarded with reduced costs or tarriffs... but again i might be doing more mystic meg on this one than a sure thing.

 

[Strima]

If the customer can afford a gym, pool etc I should think they would also be able to afford an upgrade to 3ph.

 

[jumpin jax]

Normally customers only have enough money for the fancy trimmings and not essentials like proper supplies

 

[Strima]

Very true. And they moan when they want a switch moving 300mm and have chunks of plaster and big holes in their walls... :hurray:

 

[Spudnik]

They can install split phase, ie two phases and neutral.

That should be more than enough, as i have used this on a recent kitchen shop refurb.

 

[Dunc]

Spoke to the customer yesterday and cut out the middle men I'm working for completely. Explained to the guy that the system was overloaded and that a supply upgrade was necessary (I'd worked out the maximum demand at over 200A earlier that day without all the garden and gym stuff). Anyway, to cut a long story short he was happy to go ahead with the upgrade on the assumption that the gym can still be functional (minus his 3P sun bed of course) before the new supply goes in. Fortunately this customer is a good business man and has the means to do these things and knows when not to cut corners. Happy days! Only trouble now is redesigning the installation to feature two 3P+N consumer units and ensuring 400V isn't simultaneously accessible. That'll be fun!

 

[Darkwood]

200amp max demand without garden and gym stuff... whats he live in? A shopping centre!!! that sounds very high may i ask how big is this house and i take it you applied diversity when calculating loading???

 

[Rockingit]

Dunc, look at it the other way around, You claim to need a 50kw CONTINUOUS supply......

So start of at 50, then 'spend' it around the house. Bet you've so much change left over you only needed a 20.