Wired for Success - Sexist?

[overskilled]

BBC News - Bright spark of an idea on unemployment
So either this will be a cheap way to get staff by paying them below going rates ala indentured servitude (working for your landlord, how many are going to look the other way when told to break the rules to avoid risking their tenancy?), propaganda to make it look like something is being done to find people work (as usual quietly die away after a few months), justified by "vulnerable women feel intimidated by men so we'll give them female tradespeople" or another example of sex discrimination laws being ignored to favour one gender...yet again....

Don't get me wrong, its good to see people in work, but not when plenty of others who just as able or more able are sitting on the dole and don't get the opportunity solely because they are the "wrong gender"

What do others think?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

BBC News - Bright spark of an idea on unemployment
So either this will be a cheap way to get staff by paying them below going rates ala indentured servitude (working for your landlord, how many are going to look the other way when told to break the rules to avoid risking their tenancy?), propaganda to make it look like something is being done to find people work (as usual quietly die away after a few months), justified by "vulnerable women feel intimidated by men so we'll give them female tradespeople" or another example of sex discrimination laws being ignored to favour one gender...yet again....

Don't get me wrong, its good to see people in work, but not when plenty of others who just as able or more able are sitting on the dole and don't get the opportunity solely because they are the "wrong gender"

What do others think?

well -personally i have mixed views about this...listen..when no one would give me a chance some guy took me on as an unknown quantity (i had certs yes) but he didn`t know me from adam..now then,..its working out good for me as i now have an apprenticeship with a boss who (i think lol) values me and we get on well. I am of the belief that everyone deserves a chance to better themselves....its the ones who ---- about that riles me......and i know there are good female sparks out there...i have noticed a few are members here.........

 

[ANDY FIRST]

What about getting underpaid by comparison with your mates, having same or less qualifications than you, just because your name doesn*t sound like british names?

 

[alarm man]

regardless of gender its still a watered down spark ie domestic spark,neither use nor ornament,tho the alternative pay to play offer no more..real apprenticeships for real sparks,its the only way the industry can solve the so called shortage..

 

[ANDY FIRST]

So I don't think sexist is the right word. I think is all about how proud some of these genius around our trade are trying to keep us away from normal behavior, by improving ourselves, by learning new things.

 

[ANDY FIRST]

Keep the fight! Be proud of yourself! I will be more than happy to learn or to work with somebody like you, overskilled!

 

[telectrix]

without being sexist, wait till some of these women have to crawl in attics finding dead pigeons and large alive spiders. rthen they'll see the less glamorous side of the business.

 

[La Poste]

I don't mean to sound bigoted because I'm not but you have to realise that in this society if you are female you get everything given to you whereas if you are male you get knaff all.

That's just the way it is.

 

[alarm man]

without being sexist, wait till some of these women have to crawl in attics finding dead pigeons and large alive spiders. rthen they'll see the less glamorous side of the business.

im sure they could cope with it,after all im sure childbirth isnt an easy thing..

 

[telectrix]

but you don't get gas and air and epidurals for pulling cables in

 

[alarm man]

well im sure when kath joins the thread you will all scuttle off to your holes...

 

[trev]

Lets have more like Kath I say not more 5 day wonders who have no proper training or idea of their limits.
And before some of you start yes I know there are some good and conscientious DIs out there

 

[overskilled]

I'm all in favour of women doing any job they want as long as the playing field is fair, not here have a place as your a girl...which demeans both sides, how proud would you be of yourself knowing that someone dropped the goalposts for you and that everyone knows it?

I would be ashamed to be on a course if I knew that the entry criteria had been biased to favour white scottish males, especially if I knew a female who was more capable had been denied a chance solely because of their gender.
I've met some terrible tradespeople - plumbers, brickies etc all male and many with the excuse when called out on their very poor workmanship trot out the excuse "unless your in the trade you don't understand how hard it is", funny how others manage to pump out high quality work and can use a level for starters.....If I came across a tradeswoman using the "I'm a girl its too hard" then they would get called out on it also.

Part of the problem is a lack of apprenticeships and a lack of transparency in the awarding of said apprenticeships in many areas, too many are unwilling to consider an apprentice above early 20s, even if said candidate scores highly on aptitude tests, is dead set on following the career path and is reliable. Seems to be some outdated mindsets, which isn't doing any uk trades any favours.

I'd like to see personally a wider range of people considered for apprenticeships, with perhaps a requirement to pass the SECTT test or similar before being considered for an apprenticeship and employers having to choose interview candidates from the list of aptitude test passing candidates and justify their choices in order to get apprentice subsidies, if they never take a female candidate...why not? if they refuse to take any candidate over 25...why? (at the rate we are going retirement is getting further and further away, so lack of working time with the company isn't a strong reason) I've met *some* graduates who would make good sparks, well screwed on heads, can think on their feet and are willing to get their hands dirty, then I've met some grads and apprentices, who wet behind the ears and lights on but no one home is a severe understatement.

Also what concerns me is the amount of guys out there working as sparks, who struggle to pass the 2377 PAT course or the 2382 17th course. I did both as part of a retraining scheme recently and about 1/2 to 2/3rds of the time served guys on each course failed by BIG margins (one guy was a senior journeyman with over 40 years in the trade unbroken and he scored less than 30% average, even in basic stuff....it was open book for goodness sake) A few of them I could put down to nerves on the day as they knew their stuff when discussing topics on the course, others....just seemed intent on not learning and determined to keep on working to the 16th or in some cases 15th edition or for some...their own ideas on what the regs should be, no matter how safe or unsafe.

Fair enough the Regs do have mistakes and discretion is needed...but some I've met aren't interested in doing work anyway apart from their own, even when a better way comes along for certain applications e.g. wagos.
just my 2p there, feel free to disagree.

 

[trev]

As I've said before these initiatives are all wrong. We should not be encouraging more one legged florists, more cross dressing fire fighters, more this more that more the other.
If you're the best candidate you get the gig regardless of age, sex, colour, religion etc etc etc.
Just my twopennorth

 

[Des 56]

Many of the points that overskilled made (in a negative manner) when used to compare older sparks to newer recruits was both contradictory and untrue
A crap spark is a crap spark,irrelevant of the time in the trade,be it a day or a number of decades

How on the one hand does he deplore older sparks as being rigid and unmoving with the times, sometimes incompetent,then at the same time applaud the virtues of the apprenticeship, when that was the traditional route that older sparks learned this trade



As for Wagos

I personally haven't used them,I would therefore may be a biased judge, but my perception of the type of connection that has resembled the wago (,ie light fittings with push in connections), is that the connection type is pathetic

It is being sounded out as a permanent joint that would be grouped in the same bracket as a crimp and a decent ratchet crimper,even without personal experience of them I know which method I would use