Wiring colour change question...

[Sonor]

A client of mine has asked me to correct any problems with a retail property that has recently undergone a fixed wiring test. One of the problems highlighted was "no warning of colour changes to two different versions of BS7671".

I found this a little odd as the building was being built in 2004/2005 and electrical contractors would have been aware of this.

I had a look over the installation and didn't find any two wiring versions being used, they were the new colours according to BS7671 16th edition No: 2004.

What I did find is that where a single phase circuit was connected to either the black or grey phase, they had used black and grey cables through those circuits, in other words when you take a socket off a black or grey cable was present as the live cable.

This is the first time I 've seen this. I can't find anything regarding whether this is correct or not.

 

[Adam W]

Basically what the electrician is saying is you just need a little sticker on the consumer unit like this: Warning / Caution Labels - Cable Colour Change

Personally i would fork out the 30p, stick the sticker on and move on.

 

[Risteard]

Basically what the electrician is saying is you just need a little sticker on the consumer unit like this: Warning / Caution Labels - Cable Colour Change

Personally i would fork out the 30p, stick the sticker on and move on.

You can't if only harmonised colours are present though, which I believe is the point that he was making.

 

[Adam W]

Why would that be on the PIR though?
Someone has made a mistake - either the tester by recommending the label, or the OP has missed some old coloured cable somewhere.
If possible it may be worth asking the tester where they found this cable.

 

[Steve1412]

I think the OP is getting at the fact that they have used the phase colour at the socket outlets ie grey phase and blue......corresponding to the phase its connected to.......me thinks.
Appx 11 OSG
Should be brown for single phase...no matter which single phase its coming off!

 

[Sonor]

I think the OP is getting at the fact that they have used the phase colour at the socket outlets ie grey phase and blue......corresponding to the phase its connected to.......me thinks.
Appx 11 OSG
Should be brown for single phase...no matter which single phase its coming off!

Yes, that is what I'm getting at. I don't know if the tester was recommending the two colour wiring labels because of this unusual wiring system.

There is definately no pre-2005 wiring coloured cable in this building.

 

[Steve1412]

Its a code 4....does not comply for me!!

 

[gutterball]

you could sleeve them all brown.

 

[Risteard]

I think the OP is getting at the fact that they have used the phase colour at the socket outlets ie grey phase and blue......corresponding to the phase its connected to.......me thinks.
Appx 11 OSG
Should be brown for single phase...no matter which single phase its coming off!

Yes, agreed. Although Regulations in some countries permit the phase colour to be used BS 7671 does not.

 

[ian.settle1]

Yes, agreed. Although Regulations in some countries permit the phase colour to be used BS 7671 does not.

Probabily find it has been installed by our Polish cousins by sounds off things if they have used grey & black

 

[Adam W]

Oh I see.
That's not the right sticker at all then - if they're all harmonised colours they all comply with the same version of BS7671.
From what I can make out, using the phase colours throughout the installation used to be common practice with the old colours, eg at a socket you'd get red, black and green (or green&yellow), blue, black and cpc, or yellow, black and cpc.
This practice seemed to have ceased with harmonisation, although as far as I can see it is still acceptable because black and grey are listed as phase colours; I didn't read appendix 11 in the OSG as expressly forbidding it. The only point at which confusion could arise is if someone were altering a socket wired in black, blue and green&yellow and thought it had been wired in old colours and therefore have incorrect polarity.
I'm not sure it's even a code 4, it's just a bit unconventional.

 

[robsparky1975]

By what your saying its sounds like the sockets have been wired in new colour 3 core + cpc lighting cable!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sintra]

Think it is more than likely singles in conduit or trunking.

 

[wattsup]

Well I never did so on a new intallation, if single phase, a socket say if off red phase the socket line was red, if yellow the socket line was yellow, if blue then a blue line. The same for lighting circuits. The only probs were emergency lighting, with a perm live, always the perm live was brown no matter which phase.

3-phase was idiot proof (I don't believe it is idiot proof now, except for sparks whom aint seen any other colours other than the new stuff, even then they could be confused with the 'blue phase')

Even now several years after the introduction of new colours I sometimes have to think... on old installations more so...add ons etc. I know for an absolute fact accidents have happened, yet are not reported....just an electricians error. Absolute and scandalous...yet the government knows best! The union did in fact warn the government before legislation came into force, but of course our union are labour luvvies and quickly stepped off the gas...******s