Wiring type.

[Mr Mike]

Hi guys,
May I ask for your thoughts on wiring a new build.
The options being talked about are A) trunking and single cables or B) cable tray and twin and earth.
Personnally I would opt for the trunking and singles but cable tray and twin seems to be getting some head way. I understand there will be cost saving with twin.

The application is power, lighting in a new build.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Is this a domestic new build?

 

[johnboy6083]

twin on tray looks like a bag of spanners. Ive installed that method before, on shop fits, but i didnt like it. It all depends on if it can be seen or not for me. If it cant be seen, then i would maybe go for twin on basket, but if itcan be seen, then it would be trunking and singles,. If budget wasnt the primary concern, the it would be trunking and singles anytime. the last method is also a good way of ensuring that there is no risk from rodents, and also makes the sytem easily rewireable.

 

[Mr Mike]

Is this a domestic new build?

No not domestic it is a commercial building.

 

[malcolmsanford]

To be honest Mike I'm old school and prefer Trunking/conduit installations for commercial/industrial as to my mind these type of installations tend to be more fluid when it comes to re-designing areas, introducing new equipment, changing offices around into stores etc etc.

With T+E and even SWA/Hi-Tuff are used you are literally if the area is changed or altered then all you can do is rip out and start again, whereas you can always utilize a trunking.

Yes tray/basket with T+E is easier and perhaps in the short term cheaper and unless there is an environmental reason then no reason not to use it. Just for me it is not using the best options.

 

[Knobhead]

Like John and Malcolm I’d go for conduit and trunking. Aesthetics apart once the trunking is in you have a backbone that can be added to as required.

 

[Adam W]

T&E and basket with switch drops in plastic tube.
I don't see that singles in trunking is any more rewireable than t&e, and basket can be added to just as easily, if not more so.

 

[Engineer54]

Looks like it's all down to what the modern day electrician is capable of installing again!! So it'll probably be the cable tray and T&E, as most of these new electricians run away from anything that needs a bit of skill in the designing, and installing of anything half decent. Unfortunately that includes metal trunking, metal conduit and the like etc!! Any excuse and those containment methods are dumped, in favour of the crap that they call/consider a commercial/industrial installation. But it's just pants, and dam well looks pants too!!

 

[Guest123]

What have you priced for???

Or is it a given i.e come and wire this building for me???


If it's a given, galv it, job done.:troll:

 

[Adam W]

Looks like it's all down to what the modern day electrician is capable of installing again!! So it'll probably be the cable tray and T&E, as most of these new electricians run away from anything that needs a bit of skill in the designing, and installing of anything half decent. Unfortunately that includes metal trunking, metal conduit and the like etc!! Any excuse and those containment methods are dumped, in favour of the crap that they call/consider a commercial/industrial installation. But it's just pants, and dam well looks pants too!!

Why would you spend 3 times as long and 3 times as much on materials if they're only going to rewire it in a few years anyway?
If it's a new build to be rented out it'll probably even be rewired within a matter of months when the tenant moves in, to their specification.
It's far easier, quicker, cheaper and more flexible to be able to clip or bolt accessories onto the side of a basket than have to lift all the cables out and drill into the side, then grommet it off when the occupier decides they don't want it like that anymore.

I agree that when done well galv conduit & trunking looks the business, but there's no point going out of your way to install it unnecessarily just for folly; nowadays most clients want an installation which works safely for as little expenditure as possible

I'd much rather use a new fangled hammer drill, plastic plugs and an impact driver than go out of my way doing things the old fashioned way with one of those chisel thingies, fibre plugs and a manual driver.

 

[Mark_Burgess]

Twin and Earth in a commercial building - YUK!

Singles and Galv or PVC in an office.

 

[Mr Mike]

What have you priced for???

Or is it a given i.e come and wire this building for me???


If it's a given, galv it, job done.:troll:

Thanks for your thoughts guys.
Lenny not at the price stage - just discussing containment etc.
I take on board all thoughts. My feeling is to push for trunking, galv conduit and singles, I feel comfortable in this, but unfortunately it is the clients money and he will have the fimal say. I want to give him as many pro's and conns as poss from the start, so to avoid the "I wish" after the event.
It is fantastic that this site exists, with some many good, positive and constructive comments being given - for that I thank you.

 

[Engineer54]

Why would you spend 3 times as long and 3 times as much on materials if they're only going to rewire it in a few years anyway?
If it's a new build to be rented out it'll probably even be rewired within a matter of months when the tenant moves in, to their specification.
It's far easier, quicker, cheaper and more flexible to be able to clip or bolt accessories onto the side of a basket than have to lift all the cables out and drill into the side, then grommet it off when the occupier decides they don't want it like that anymore.

I agree that when done well galv conduit & trunking looks the business, but there's no point going out of your way to install it unnecessarily just for folly; nowadays most clients want an installation which works safely for as little expenditure as possible .

If you read post # 6 of this thread you have your answer...

 

[Adam W]

If you read post # 6 of this thread you have your answer...

That's not an answer if you consider post # 7.

 

[Engineer54]

Oh dear!! You see i wouldn't even give that installation a second thought, let alone a first thought!! ...lol!!

 

[Adam W]

Oh dear!! You see i wouldn't even give that installation a second thought, let alone a first thought!! ...lol!!

Presumably you mean the other way around - you wouldn't give it a first though, let alone a second thought?

Apart from apparently not being able to adapt basket (which you can do far more easily than with trunking) and looking nice if you lift the ceiling up, I can't see any good reasons not to install basket.

If price were an issue, which it is for many clients, basket would win again because it's cheaper both in materials and man hours.

Or cheaper still, you could fix a row of stop end boxes on the permanent ceiling, run a catenary wire alongside them, and cable tie a bunch of T&E to it, coming off at each box for a rose.
How do you like that idea then, E54?

Of course trunking would look nicer, but it's down to the requirements of the job.

 

[Knobhead]

I know the criteria I would set and that is durability.
T+E in plastic drops are too easy to damage. But I suppose it’s easy for those with little or no real skill to knock together.

 

[Engineer54]

Yes your right the other way round!! First thought let alone a second thought!! lol!! What i was trying to say was, that i wouldn't have even have suggested such an installation to a client...

As was pointed out by Tony, trunking/conduit installation would rarely need to be completly ripped out, as it would in effect be the backbone of the present and any future system layout. And not look like something that a first year apprentice would install.

 

[Adam W]

Does it really need to be that durable in a commercial environment, considering the basket will be out of reach above the ceiling and the switch drops behind plasterboard?

I still don't get why you'd need to 'rip out' a cable basket if you needed to alter the installation.

 

[mogga]

busbar n tap offs for sockets n one for lighting = very flexable easy install expensive but easy to move stuff around

basket twe = easy to install inexpensive quick to install

trunking singles = expensive inflexable time taken to install great if its a permanent install not that great in shop fit where walls move right left n center

 

[High Tower]

Just drop the T&E on top of the suspended ceiling and clip it to the wall with T&E clips!!.

Duck under the crossfire lol

 

[ipf]

Just drop the T&E on top of the suspended ceiling and clip it to the wall with T&E clips!!.

Duck under the crossfire lol

You can always cable tie to the suspension wires. Ouch!

 

[maxfresh]

How about using nymj instead of t+e

 

[jbecks]

In our plant we have alot of SWA in cable trays or using cleats on the wall but its very industrial plant, I have never seen T&E in an industrial enviroment...I think I would find it quite odd