Holiday let Fire Alarm

[EddieB]

Now there's a requirement for a Fire detection in all bedrooms as well as hallways Lounge and Kitchens can the detectors be wired from the existing lighting circuit or must it be a dedicated circuit, I know what's best practice but the logistics make it very expensive and impractical

 

[pc1966]

I think most folks here would say wiring to an existing light circuit is a better plan as if it trips folks know sooner and usually do something about it rather than stumble in the dark, where as for some alarms the backup is only a modest time so if it trips it might stop squawking in a while and nobody knows the alarms are dead.

Other here will know a lot more about the alarm categories, but in Scotland the requirement for linked alarms in domestic and similar properties is met by radio units with a sealed 10-year batter.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Do you mean FIRE detection, or is it SMOKE detection?

 

[EddieB]

Do you mean FIRE detection, or is it SMOKE detection?

Smoke in the Bedrooms etc, Fire in the Kitchen

 

[DPG]

Smoke in the Bedrooms etc, Fire in the Kitchen

Not heat?

 

[Taylortwocities]

A fire alarm system is a very different thing altogether.
To meet Scotland regs you need SMOKE alarms with HEAT alarm in kitchen.

Think there’s a requirement for them to be interlinked too?

 

[EddieB]

Not heat?

YES A Heat Detector, does this make a difference, how else will a Heat detector operate, don't say Heat hahaha!!

 

[EddieB]

A fire alarm system is a very different thing altogether.
To meet Scotland regs you need SMOKE alarms with HEAT alarm in kitchen.

Think there’s a requirement for them to be interlinked too?

Yes, interlink is required, so I'm thinking of using the light circuit in each room for the power requirement and a wifi link between detectors

 

[Taylortwocities]

Most alarm systems use radio frequency to interlink, not wifi

Use Aico. They the best on the market.

 

[EddieB]

Most alarm systems use radio frequency to interlink, not wifi

OK shall we agree on the terminology wireless, so far you've been very pedantic about the terminology, any constructive suggestions?

 

[EddieB]

Most alarm systems use radio frequency to interlink, not wifi

Use Aico. They the best on the market.

I'll have a look at them thanks

 

[James]

OK shall we agree on the terminology wireless, so far you've been very pedantic about the terminology, any constructive suggestions?

NO, when it comes to advice on safety systems like this, even informal as this is. it is important to get things factual.
smoke alarms and smoke detectors are different things, as are heat detectors and heat alarms.
fire alarms and fire detection are different entirely and come under different regulations.

I don't think anyone is trying to be pedantic or show up a lack of knowledge, just that sometimes more information is required to give good advice,

 

[EddieB]

NO, when it comes to advice on safety systems like this, even informal as this is. it is important to get things factual.
smoke alarms and smoke detectors are different things, as are heat detectors and heat alarms.
fire alarms and fire detection are different entirely and come under different regulations.

I don't think anyone is trying to be pedantic or show up a lack of knowledge, just that sometimes more information is required to give good advice,

Hi James I'd be very interested in how these systems differ
Heat Detector v Heat Alarms the difference being?
Smoke Alarms v Smoke detectors the difference here is?
Fire Alarms V Fire detection the same question applies
I ask this because I'm truly intrested in the differences, remember here that the original question pertained to the change in a holiday let regulations and it. seems as if we are creeping into commercial and industrial detection systems for example an ANSUL detector in a commercial kitchen (HEAT) and the Air sampling systems as in Airports and Volatile areas ( VESDA for example )

 

[pirate]

Here in bonnie Scotland, Aico 10 year li battery smokes and heats, radio interlinked...there is no simpler system.
No redecoration, no raggling (chasing)of walls and ceilings, plastering, painting...
Just stick 'em up, pair them, walk away...I have never had a call-back on Aico yet.
OK, it's a very fast installation, so not a lot of money to be made, but the clients love them once you have sold the concept...especially the quick in and out and no other trades to make good. An extra £200, against about 3 times that for making good for hard wired...and it leads to extra work from satisfied clients.

 

[James]

Hi James I'd be very interested in how these systems differ
Heat Detector v Heat Alarms the difference being?
Smoke Alarms v Smoke detectors the difference here is?
A smoke alarm makes noise, a smoke detector signals to something else. same applies to heat detectors / alarms.
Fire Alarms V Fire detection the same question applies A fire alarm is a system designed to detect fire and "sound an alarm" often with the intention of evacuating a building / alerting emergency responders. Fire detection is simply the act of detecting a fire, it may signal a fire alarm and often does. however sometimes it will signal a control system to say "all is ok" as a fire is expected and fire going out would create a danger.

I ask this because I'm truly intrested in the differences, remember here that the original question pertained to the change in a holiday let regulations and it. seems as if we are creeping into commercial and industrial detection systems. Some Residential lets may require a far more professional fire alarm system that includes detectors and sounders compared to others that may only require stand alone or interlinked smoke/heat alarms.
for example an ANSUL detector in a commercial kitchen (HEAT) and the Air sampling systems as in Airports and Volatile areas ( VESDA for example )

 

[EddieB]

Here in bonnie Scotland, Aico 10 year li battery smokes and heats, radio interlinked...there is no simpler system.
No redecoration, no raggling (chasing)of walls and ceilings, plastering, painting...
Just stick 'em up, pair them, walk away...I have never had a call-back on Aico yet.
OK, it's a very fast installation, so not a lot of money to be made, but the clients love them once you have sold the concept...especially the quick in and out and no other trades to make good. An extra £200, against about 3 times that for making good for hard wired...and it leads to extra work from satisfied clients.

I like the sound of this believe me but I'm. not. sure if it's. BS 5839 Part 6 Grade D1 Category LD1 compliant if it is sign me up

Here in bonnie Scotland, Aico 10 year li battery smokes and heats, radio interlinked...there is no simpler system.
No redecoration, no raggling (chasing)of walls and ceilings, plastering, painting...
Just stick 'em up, pair them, walk away...I have never had a call-back on Aico yet.
OK, it's a very fast installation, so not a lot of money to be made, but the clients love them once you have sold the concept...especially the quick in and out and no other trades to make good. An extra £200, against about 3 times that for making good for hard wired...and it leads to extra work from satisfied clients.

 

[Megawatt]

Now there's a requirement for a Fire detection in all bedrooms as well as hallways Lounge and Kitchens can the detectors be wired from the existing lighting circuit or must it be a dedicated circuit, I know what's best practice but the logistics make it very expensive and impractical

In the USA all smoke detectors are required to have their own circuit and be wired together so if 1 goes off they all go off.

 

[oscar21]

Here in bonnie Scotland, Aico 10 year li battery smokes and heats, radio interlinked...there is no simpler system.
No redecoration, no raggling (chasing)of walls and ceilings, plastering, painting...
Just stick 'em up, pair them, walk away...I have never had a call-back on Aico yet.
OK, it's a very fast installation, so not a lot of money to be made, but the clients love them once you have sold the concept...especially the quick in and out and no other trades to make good. An extra £200, against about 3 times that for making good for hard wired...and it leads to extra work from satisfied clients.

Do these still need a mains supply, if so it might not always be so simple.

If not then radio interlinked wont last anywhere near 10 years despite any claims otherwise. 1 year maybe, 10 years no way hosea.

 

[davesparks]

In the USA all smoke detectors are required to have their own circuit and be wired together so if 1 goes off they all go off.

This is allowed in the UK but it is preferred to supply them from a regularly used lighting circuit. This way ensures that if the circuit trips it will be noticed quickly.

Also we are allowed to use radio linked alarms or have them wired together.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Also we are allowed to use radio linked alarms or have them wired together

And with Aico you can have some alarms hardwired interlink and some radio(wireless) interlinked.

 

[baldelectrician]

Do these still need a mains supply, if so it might not always be so simple.

If not then radio interlinked wont last anywhere near 10 years despite any claims otherwise. 1 year maybe, 10 years no way hosea.

Years ago I would have agreed on the battery issue.

Now the batteries and the alarm technology are much better, however I would not install something like Fire Angel (they had a product recall a few years ago as 10 year batteries lasted 1.5 years)

On the other side I install Aico battery interlinked alarms and have had almost no failures, the failure rate is less than 0.05% (we have installed lots), we tend to get the client to buy them direct from the wholesaler to keep our turnover down

 

[EddieB]

Thanks James
I believe that the original question would have negated most of your need to display your knowledge on Fire Alarm systems, however thank you for your manufacturer recommendations

 

[EddieB]

Years ago I would have agreed on the battery issue.

Now the batteries and the alarm technology are much better, however I would not install something like Fire Angel (they had a product recall a few years ago as 10 year batteries lasted 1.5 years)

On the other side I install Aico battery interlinked alarms and have had almost no failures, the failure rate is less than 0.05% (we have installed lots), we tend to get the client to buy them direct from the wholesaler to keep our turnover down

Hi, baldelectrician doesn't BS 5839 Part 6 Grade D1 Category LD1 compliant regs want mains powered units as opposed to all battery which falls into the BS 5839 Part 6 Grade F1 compliant regs?

 

[James]

I think you’re mixing me up with someone else, I made no manufactures recommendations.
only made a point about definitions

 

[EddieB]

I think you’re mixing me up with someone else, I made no manufactures recommendations.
only made a point about definitions

Yeah. your right, sorry you didn'

 

[littlespark]

Ok… I’ll bite.

Oscar… are you suggesting that aico, with a 10 year battery, no mains power will not last 10 years because of the rf functionality?

I would estimate 50% of Scottish homes have at least one of these types of detector since the new legislation came in. Possibly more.



Are we certain OP is in Scotland, or was that just to explain something?
If they are, then all domestic properties are the same whether owned, rented or holiday accommodation… it’s one smoke on each hall/ landing…. Heat in kitchen and smoke in “a room that gets used the most” like a living room.
Extra detectors can be put in if required according to layout of house.

However, some of my English customers just over the border have indeed needed detectors in bedrooms for holiday lets.

 

[pc1966]

If not then radio interlinked wont last anywhere near 10 years despite any claims otherwise. 1 year maybe, 10 years no way hosea.

Ah you have used FireAngel then?

I would say that if you were doing a rewire than putting in the mains powered Aico would be better as the alarm modules are cheaper, more so when it comes to the ~10 year replacement due to sensor age, etc. I would still use the light circuit for powering it though unless something complicated where it had to be separate.

Best thing to me about the Aico range is the remote test/silence button, saves folks trying to wave a towel at them, etc.

 

[EddieB]

Ok… I’ll bite.

Oscar… are you suggesting that aico, with a 10 year battery, no mains power will not last 10 years because of the rf functionality?

I would estimate 50% of Scottish homes have at least one of these types of detector since the new legislation came in. Possibly more.



Are we certain OP is in Scotland, or was that just to explain something?
If they are, then all domestic properties are the same whether owned, rented or holiday accommodation… it’s one smoke on each hall/ landing…. Heat in kitchen and smoke in “a room that gets used the most” like a living room.
Extra detectors can be put in if required according to layout of house.

However, some of my English customers just over the border have indeed needed detectors in bedrooms for holiday lets.

WHAT!!! you coming over the Border ...... Hahahaha!!

 

[littlespark]

WHAT!!! you coming over the Border ...... Hahahaha!!

Yeah. Got my passport and a strip search every time….

The border is only 4 or 5 miles away from me… my wholesalers and nearest supermarkets are all on the English side.

Handy this time of year when scotland has minimum pricing on alcohol.

 

[baldelectrician]

Yeah. Got my passport and a strip search every time….

Only because you insist