Pricing and Timing

[ppelec100]

So I just started out recently and I’m struggling with what to price myself at. It’s worth noting I live in the east London area and I’m looking to cover mostly north, east and maybe south east London and Essex. Possibly central London if the price is right of course.

I’m thinking of charging £70 an hour,
Looking to work half days 4 hours, full days 8 hours plus lunchtime probably 8.5hours
£210 for half a day,
£350 for a full day

The way I’ve worked it is £210= 70 x 4 - 1 hour as I don’t need to travel as much.
£350= 210 x 2 - 1 hour again as I’m only travelling once for the day.

But again this might not always work as the further out I travel I will need to raise the rate somehow either by increasing the day rate or adding on an extra hour or half hour.

It’s also worth noting that I don’t have many clients, my experience is not extremely high though I do always do a proper job no matter how long it ends up taking me even if I have research and reading up to do. Some people are going to say these prices are quite low I reckon but the only reason I’ve put it at these prices is so that it’s not too low to draw in all the cheap price hagglers and end up with a line full of nuisance customers but it’s not too high where I can still get in the decent customers who won’t cause a fuss about paying. In time once I’m super busy and feel it’s time to up the rates I will to maybe 80 or 90 an hour.

I’ve also got 33 downlights to measure out, cut, first and second fix soon if I get the job. House has had all carpets lifted, floorboards exposed for me to lift. Loft only has insulation in. It’s about 30mins away from my house. I’m thinking of pricing it on 5 days x full day rate + materials with 20% markup?

Is there any formula you guys used when first deciding out your prices?

Do you charge different rates the further out you go or do you just add on additional half hours or hours for travel?

How would you guys price this downlight job? Would you charge per downlight or day rate too?

 

[nicebutdim]

5 full days to fit 33 downlights - is this a typo?

 

[ppelec100]

5 full days to fit 33 downlights - is this a typo?

This is how she has sent it to me.

1. Master bed room 4 spotlights
2. Middle bedroom 4 spotlights
3. Small bedroom 4 spotlights
4. Upstairs landing 2 spotlights
5. Downstairs corridor 3 spotlights
6. Sitting room 5 spotlights
7. Dining room 4 spotlights
8. Kitchen 5 spotlights
9. Bathroom 2 spotlights

There’s quite a few rooms which means I’ll need to measure out for each room. Do the junction box termination for each room. I would need to fill each hole where the pendant has come out. I also need to go and see the property on Friday so my time for that needs to be covered. I’ll need to test before to check the circuit is all good and test after. I know I’m mentioning all these little bits but they all add up in terms of time. Also she’s put 2 lights in the bathroom but I know that will end up being most likely 4.

at the moment I’m set on 5 days to cover myself. Are you saying it’s too many days or not enough?

Also what do you think of my prices per hour, half day and full days and how I’ve set it out?

 

[mainline]

5 full days to fit 33 downlights - is this a typo?

An hour a downlight at £70 an Hour

 

[ppelec100]

An hour a downlight at £70 an Hour

Is that how you would price it?

I would charge a day rate of £350 x 5 days. Wouldn’t charge hourly because I’m not losing time traveling to different jobs.

 

[mainline]

Is that how you would price it?

I would charge a day rate of £350 x 5 days. Wouldn’t charge hourly because I’m not losing time traveling to different jobs.

I was looking at it from the customer's point.

Personally, I wouldn't put a mark-up on materials and would work on a day rate.

I'm guessing but because it's London £350 a day is cheap.

 

[ppelec100]

I was looking at it from the customer's point.

Personally, I wouldn't put a mark-up on materials and would work on a day rate.

But looking at it from the customers point always makes me think I need to lower my price and I end up doing myself over. That’s why I made this post to see what other sparks think.

Also don’t you always add a mark up on materials? Which covers your time for looking up the materials, making the list, ordering and picking it up and when things go wrong it covers your time of going to put things right too.

Also the markup will also cover me for consumables that are too small to list and charge for such as wagos, tape, sleeving etc. sounds silly I know but it all adds up and it wouldn’t be fair if it ate into my labour price as it’s materials…

 

[mainline]

But looking at it from the customers point always makes me think I need to lower my price and I end up doing myself over. That’s why I made this post to see what other sparks think.

Also don’t you always add a mark up on materials? Which covers your time for looking up the materials, making the list, ordering and picking it up and when things go wrong it covers your time of going to put things right too.

Also the markup will also cover me for consumables that are too small to list and charge for such as wagos, tape, sleeving etc. sounds silly I know but it all adds up and it wouldn’t be fair if it ate into my labour price as it’s materials…

I agree it all adds up, but for me there's nothing worse than a customer saying " I can get the same lights for £% less than that from Tool station ".

 

[HappyHippyDad]

If the floorboards are easy to lift and there is nothing to move, then I would quote 3 days. If there is any hint that I may run into complications, then I would quote basing it on 4 days. If I had just started out, then it may take me 5 days, but I wouldn't have had a higher day rate then, due to being slow.
20% mark up on prices sounds fine.

Saying all that, you're in London. I don't think your price of £1750 labour for fitting 33 downlights is too outrageous. Higher than I would charge in Gloucestershire, but again not a crazy price.

 

[ppelec100]

I agree it all adds up, but for me there's nothing worse than a customer saying " I can get the same lights for £% less than that from Tool station ".

I didn’t see the bit you mentioned about £350 a day in London being cheap when I wrote my last reply. What would you consider a decent rate for London if you have an idea? I feel like it may be cheap too. I could up the day rate where I’ll only be somewhere for just 1 or 2 days. But say for this job where I’m most likely going to be there for the whole week I could keep it at a lower day rate/ weekly rate if that makes sense?

Also, about the customer saying I can get it cheaper in Screwfix Toolstation etc. I’ve seen someone on this forum saying something like Screwfix won’t come out to swap the lights free of charge if it goes wrong… and I agree.

 

[ppelec100]

If the floorboards are easy to lift and there is nothing to move, then I would quote 3 days. If there is any hint that I may run into complications, then I would quote basing it on 4 days. If I had just started out, then it may take me 5 days, but I wouldn't have had a higher day rate then, due to being slow.
20% mark up on prices sounds fine.

Saying all that, you're in London. I don't think your price of £1750 labour for fitting 33 downlights is too outrageous. Higher than I would charge in Gloucestershire, but again not a crazy price.

Honestly I am a bit slow right now as I’ve only started so I’m not too used to this stuff which is why I’ve said 5 days to give me a bit of room for error.
20% markup is what everyone I know seems to be doing.

For hourly, half day and full day rates, how did you work out what you are happy with? Did you pull out random figures or have you got a way of calculating it?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Honestly I am a bit slow right now as I’ve only started so I’m not too used to this stuff which is why I’ve said 5 days to give me a bit of room for error.
20% markup is what everyone I know seems to be doing.

For hourly, half day and full day rates, how did you work out what you are happy with? Did you pull out random figures or have you got a way of calculating it?

I can only really speak for myself, so please seek more opinions.
I started out perhaps 12 years ago with my price too low, because I had no idea what to charge.
I started getting more of an idea of prices by chatting on here, as you are doing. Then, over time you get a feel for what you can charge in your area without losing work.
It's difficult to comment on the prices you have given as I don't know London prices.
A guess would be £70 p/hour is probably within normal limits, maybe towards the higher end of normal. £210 half day is maybe towards the lower end of normal and £350 sounds a bit too low.

 

[Dustydazzler]

London / Greater London jobs are £95 per hour , for every hour / part hour on-site. Non-negotiable. Matreials used are chargable at pretty much what I pay for them.

 

[KungFuTurkeyLeg]

I thought 20% was a pretty fair mark up in materials, but recently a chap I got to know made me think again. On the flip side, I've tried to convince him his hourly rate is way too low, £25-35 depending on how far he has to drive.

On small items he's doing a 100% markup and on bigger ticket items he does 30%. Example being a bath would attract 30% and a glass shower screen would get 30%

 

[Risteard]

I thought 20% was a pretty fair mark up in materials, but recently a chap I got to know made me think again. On the flip side, I've tried to convince him his hourly rate is way too low, £25-35 depending on how far he has to drive.

On small items he's doing a 100% markup and on bigger ticket items he does 30%. Example being a bath would attract 30% and a glass shower screen would get 30%

30% is absolutely fine. Use it myself.

 

[davesparks]

I’m thinking of charging £70 an hour,
Looking to work half days 4 hours, full days 8 hours plus lunchtime probably 8.5hours
£210 for half a day,
£350 for a full day

So for 4 hours work you are going to charge for 3 hours at £70/hour?
And for 8 hours work you are going to charge for 5 hours at £70/hour?

Why are you giving the customer so many free hours?

 

[davesparks]

. But say for this job where I’m most likely going to be there for the whole week I could keep it at a lower day rate/ weekly rate if that makes sense?

No it doesn't make sense, if you have worked out that you need £70/hour to cover your overheads and pay you a fair income then that is what you charge. Reducing your rate for being there longer is not going to pay you that income and will l, if taken to it's extreme, result in you working on the biggest jobs for free.

 

[LukeD]

No chance a client is getting materials for cost. There is time and travel to get them.This is to be paid for . Depending on the client... might be 20-30% some a LOT More !! Never ever go in LOW and never offer discount for cash etc etc . You work on YOUR TERMS .They either accept or not .BUt more and more of the public have now got lower standards and happy for a semi ok job cash in hand etc . Dont work for them .

 

[MDJ]

I’m thinking of charging £70 an hour,

When I ran my business I use to times the rate I wanted to pay myself by 110 percent to allow for holiday pay,, sick pay, employers national insurance contribution and running the van, so if you want 200 pounds a day purely for an example you charge 420, it depends on what you want to earn. then there is the local area rates most companies charge where you need to be competitive, if you work 10 hours a day at your rate of 70 pounds you will be charging the customer 700 pounds.

In my opinion unless in London this is expensive, that said I believe we sparks are under paid so probably realistic, you need to find out the going rates in your area, I would suggest around 55-60 the rate most firms charge up north and 60-70 in the south and 90 plus in London, you will soon find out if your rates are wrong if you get too much work or not much work, give 70 a go mate and see how it pans out.

 

[pc1966]

When I ran my business I use to times the rate I wanted to pay myself by 110 percent to allow for holiday pay,, sick pay,

I guess you mean +110%?

If you are self-employed so are running the business you need to be thinking around this, i.e. charge double what your pay will cost. You have various overheads to cover as well as things like sick-pay and holiday time that others take for granted, and potentially quiet periods of no work (even if just parts of days you can't sensibly fit a job in to).

On materials I would say go with the well-known prices, or not far off, to avoid arguments. If you can get some stuff cheaper via wholesale place then nice and dandy. Don't get in to customer-supplied stuff if at all possible as a lot of the times they will get it wrong or go for some utterly crap brand that folks on here would avoid. Sometimes make exceptions, e.g. artisanal lights they found in some specialised supplier, but make it clear you don't offer warranty on them.