AC vs DC, live vs neutral

[brianmoooore]

I sometimes think I exist in two parallel universes. One where electricians such as the one referred to in this post operate, and one like on here, where we discuss things like derating factors for cables passing through a few inches of insulation or the differences between an EIC and an EICR.

 

[James]

I agree,
There have been a few occasions where a customers of mine have called me in a somewhat annoyed / distressed state to tell me another "electrician" has come in to do some work and condemned or stated my previous work was not up to scratch etc.

because I keep a good ongoing relationship with over 90% of my customers, it normally goes one of 2 ways.

I suggest a meeting in person at the customers premises with me, the other "electrician" and the customer.
If there has been any suggestion that it is unsafe, I ask that a company director be there if possible and minutes are taken.

either
1
the other spark wont commit to a meeting or fails to turn up.
I walk the customer through whatever has been alleged to be improper, point out the way it has been installed and any relevant standards.
show them the relevant regs in the blue book and the other spark never gets asked to come back.

2
the other guy turns up, we walk the installation, he points out what is wrong.
i take a couple of notes, we go to a meeting room and I ask him to justify his opinion by pointing out the relevant regulations in the book on the table.
he cant find them because he is working to a set of standards such as, well that's the way i was taught and it must be done like that. or the reg is not relevant in that particular case etc.

somewhat worrying is a couple of times these other sparks have been registered with NIC or other trade scams, for some people it doesn't make them better of more professional, just gives them a nice sticker and boosts there ego to the point where they think they are better than me.

Note:
I have met sparks that are better than me, but none of them have started procedures by telling me I am wrong.

 

[Rockingit]

I agree,
There have been a few occasions where a customers of mine have called me in a somewhat annoyed / distressed state to tell me another "electrician" has come in to do some work and condemned or stated my previous work was not up to scratch etc.

because I keep a good ongoing relationship with over 90% of my customers, it normally goes one of 2 ways.

I suggest a meeting in person at the customers premises with me, the other "electrician" and the customer.
If there has been any suggestion that it is unsafe, I ask that a company director be there if possible and minutes are taken.

either
1
the other spark wont commit to a meeting or fails to turn up.
I walk the customer through whatever has been alleged to be improper, point out the way it has been installed and any relevant standards.
show them the relevant regs in the blue book and the other spark never gets asked to come back.

2
the other guy turns up, we walk the installation, he points out what is wrong.
i take a couple of notes, we go to a meeting room and I ask him to justify his opinion by pointing out the relevant regulations in the book on the table.
he cant find them because he is working to a set of standards such as, well that's the way i was taught and it must be done like that. or the reg is not relevant in that particular case etc.

somewhat worrying is a couple of times these other sparks have been registered with NIC or other trade scams, for some people it doesn't make them better of more professional, just gives them a nice sticker and boosts there ego to the point where they think they are better than me.

Note:
I have met sparks that are better than me, but none of them have started procedures by telling me I am wrong.

I always (try - hope!) start from a position of asking to understand why someone has approached something from a certain angle and then discuss / educate. It's near impossible to have an all-encompassing knowledge of everything electrical these days and anyone who claims to have gets an instant red flag from me, but for example I know that I know very little about Ch 8 stuff, so I'm not going to make a judgment call on anything around that without having a solid basis first. It's also very annoying that a lot of 'sausage machine' electricians will look at something and flag it up as wrong, simply because it's not standard to their way of thinking because they don't possess a full grasp of knowledge.

 

[mainline]

show them the relevant regs in the blue book and the other spark never gets asked to come back.

The other electrician could have pointed to the book and said that's outdated for a start

 

[James]

The other electrician could have pointed to the book and said that's outdated for a start

If you think that's outdated, you have not seen my hairstyle!!

 

[mainline]

If you think that's outdated, you have not seen my hairstyle!!

I can only guess

 

[brianmoooore]

Ah, hairstyle. One of the few things I no longer have to worry about.

 

[mainline]

Note:
I have met sparks that are better than me, but none of them have started procedures by telling me I am wrong.

I agree normally they will tell you at the end.

 

[JAMJAM]

Are you sure that’s what was said?

The copper sheath of MICC is designed to be the cpc.


I’d suggest a second electrician to find the fault, and isolate the affected circuit until then.

Hi littlespark / others.
Thanks for all the help. The plot thickens! The house is back on the market and I've had another look. What's going on here? As I said it has 4 consumer units and mainly MICC cable. Vendor says "MICC runs underground to outbuildings, so provides a giant earth rod". Maybe, but what's going on here? His electrician insisted on putting 415v notices on the units. Surely not, it's not a 3 phase supply. Also is the mix of MICC and other OK? My sparky said the 'new' cable links to a further consumer unit which is not OK, but i've just had a trusted sparky do this from my house to a consumer unit in my summer house. Is this wrong?

 

[Rockingit]

So are you looking at buying this place? If so, then as part of your normal surveys just get a competent electrician to conduct an inspection and go from there.

And no, MICC would not provide a 'giant earth rod' as whilst it would maybe introduce some additional parallel paths to earth (and only where it's not been installed correctly!) that doesn't count towards the earthing system of a property because the measurements that are taken to determine that are those of the supply end, with parallel paths disconnected. Additionally, you won't find any reference to it in BS7430 as an approved method (even if it did work!)