Anyone watched the TV documentary tonight about Heat Pumps and electricity supplies in general?

[pirate]

Seriously just wanting to have a discussion on this huge issue.
Clearly, there are not enough competent installers of heat pumps, so we may see some scheme whereby one can get "qualified" in a short time.
I have views on this, and I have views on everything the documentary covered, but my purpose is simply to stimulate debate.
Please let's discuss?

 

[plugsandsparks]

I have been surprised by the level of general ignorance of heat pumps, both within the general public and radio 4 and other political pundits. As i install A/C and heat pumps controls, i have witnessed a product which has always had a niche in the market now being hailed as the solution to all our heating needs. Its a big leap and whilst i do believe heat pumps do offer viable solutions in certain circumstances, it by no means is a solution to the vast majority of existing homes....... unless they are mandated.... which simply means they become a sub optimal solution to Natural gas. Certainly new homes could be designed to allow a heat pump to provide an acceptable level of comfort and function, but they will consume roughly an equivalent of energy cost similar to Oil or LPG. For them to compete with Natural Gas, either they need to be mandated or the cost of natural gas needs to rise significantly or the electricity costs need to fall comparable to Oil or LPG. As are current electrical generation is significantly provided by Natural gas it is hard to see how fitting a heat pump will provide a warm home at a lower cost than an NG boiler.
Clearly if electrical generation moved purely to nuclear or full renewables you could argue that the extra load created by heat pumps over NG is now fully green and an acceptable cost, sadly our local grid infrastructure is wholly inadequate to provide Heat pumps alone never mind car charging, it is somewhat of a game of chicken to see which organisation or government finally admits, this dream is impossible by 2035 or 2050 or whatever...

 

[ipf]

Seriously just wanting to have a discussion on this huge issue.
Clearly, there are not enough competent installers of heat pumps, so we may see some scheme whereby one can get "qualified" in a short time.
I have views on this, and I have views on everything the documentary covered, but my purpose is simply to stimulate debate.
Please let's discuss?

At getting on for 20k a pop, I'd like to know where is the market going to be for a massive bunch of half trained lackies to play havoc.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I watched around 15 mins of the programme tonight and what I hadn't realised to make a heat source ground pump effective you need to replace all your doors and windows , upgrade all your roof and wall insulation and install all new energy effective radiators.
Taking the average cost of install to £20,000.
Can't see £20,000 flying with many people at the minute with the cost of living crunch Crisis

 

[James]

I watched around 15 mins of the programme tonight and what I hadn't realised to make a heat source ground pump effective you need to replace all your doors and windows , upgrade all your roof and wall insulation and install all new energy effective radiators.
Taking the average cost of install to £20,000.
Can't see £20,000 flying with many people at the minute with the cost of living crunch Crisis

That sort of system really works well with new builds or a complete home renovation.
where top grade insulation and underfloor heating can be installed without too much disruption.
there are systems that will work with existing radiators or just slightly bigger ones using the same pipework but the efficiency drops as the heating loop temperature has to be higher.

 

[oscar21]

I know someone who has just fitted one to his own house, he is a plumber so is using it as his show job to enable him to be a registered fitter of them. I cant wait until the winter when he is crying over his massive electric bill.

You don't get anything for nothing, not in this life.

 

[James]

They can be the most efficient way to heat a home. yes the electric bill will go up but the gas bill should go down by more.
and you are missing the point, you do get something for nothing.

If you did a bit of research, you would find that for every 1kw/h of gas used, a central heating boiler is likely to deliver between 600 and 800w of heat into the home.

A heat pump is normally in the region of 1Kw electricity in, around 4 to 5Kw of heat delivered to the house.

 

[nicebutdim]

I know someone who has just fitted one to his own house, he is a plumber so is using it as his show job to enable him to be a registered fitter of them. I cant wait until the winter when he is crying over his massive electric bill.

You don't get anything for nothing, not in this life.

Think of all the remedial work you get, following behind his installations.

 

[oscar21]

They can be the most efficient way to heat a home. yes the electric bill will go up but the gas bill should go down by more.
and you are missing the point, you do get something for nothing.

If you did a bit of research, you would find that for every 1kw/h of gas used, a central heating boiler is likely to deliver between 600 and 800w of heat into the home.

A heat pump is normally in the region of 1Kw electricity in, around 4 to 5Kw of heat delivered to the house.

That's only the theory though. In reality everything I've ever seen offering something for nothing has never worked in reality, I've seen so many "next big things" in my life that you tend to take everything you hear about with a pinch of salt.

There was a big housing estate built near me a few years ago, purpose built to be eco friendly with all supposed modern money saving devices. The people that rented them couldn't wait to get out after six months, they said the electric bills were crippling them. It was such a disaster that it made parliament.

Before.

Families learn to live with nature

INNOVATIVE, groundbreaking and thoughtful are just a few of the words used to describe Stamford Brook - "eco friendly" homes in Altrincham.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

After

Heat is on for eco estate

FLAGSHIP eco homes in Broadheath may not be as green as first hoped, according to a government report. Stamford Brook was dubbed a model of environmentally friendly living when it was built two years ago.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2012-1435/StamfordBrook.pdf

I'll believe it if I ever see it.

 

[plugsandsparks]

They can be the most efficient way to heat a home. yes the electric bill will go up but the gas bill should go down by more.
and you are missing the point, you do get something for nothing.

If you did a bit of research, you would find that for every 1kw/h of gas used, a central heating boiler is likely to deliver between 600 and 800w of heat into the home.

A heat pump is normally in the region of 1Kw electricity in, around 4 to 5Kw of heat delivered to the house.

Seriously ? - Even a 5 year old gas boiler delivers 95% efficiency, i know cos i measure them, dont need research, i actually see it on my meter, lol - as for claimed HP efficiency, even GSHPs struggle with a cop of 3.
Just download the efficiency curves for any ASHP or GSHP, you will be shocked when you see how the COP changes with output temperature, never mind outside or ground temps, people simply do not understand this stuff, its very worrying....
It reminds me of the Induction Hob saleman saying how efficient their hob is over gas, maybe but the electricity cost is 6 times higher than gas,