UK DIY Shocker!!!

[DIYer Gaz]

Hi guys,

I hope everyone is well.

So to detail my experience, I had a loose wire behind my electric cooker mains plug, so I tested the plug after sorting the wire forgot to turn off the mains at the box and yes as you can guess as I went to push the socket into the wall to screw in, two fingers on eight hand touches the metal box behind the socket all whilst being barefoot standing on the kitchen floor. Never felt anything like it, straight up my eight arm fuzzy head and all that. This was late last night about 10.30pm. Should I be worried? It is fair to say I will be staying away from electrics from now on.

 

[Andy78]

You should ring NHS direct and take their guidance. It's advised to get a check up after a shock, but in the current climate I have no idea what's possible.

 

[buzzlightyear]

That's completely shocking. Me I would have sat down pored a whiskey and said I'm glad to be alive.if there was any blisters on the hand that I would go to hospital.

 

[radiohead]

Hopefully lesson learnt as next time you may not be so lucky. As Andy has said you would be advised to talk to the NHS as a severe shock can interrupt the hearts rhythm without the victim being aware. That said it is probably unlikely. I believe the NHS has expressed concern that conditions other than CV are being left in the present climate, and they have clearly stated if you would normally seek treatment for an accident you should still do so.
I am immensely pleased however that you didn't claim to be thrown across the room, as almost all non-electricians laughably do.

 

[pc1966]

As others have said, there can be longer-term effects but the fact your are alive and well enough to post here 12 hours later is a good sign!

Given that, and assuming you feel OK now (other than psychological shock, so no sign of burns or so on your fingers and no unusual heart beat) it might be worth speaking to the NHS direct just in case, but I suspect the current risk of getting COVID-19 from an A&E trip is probably greater than doing nothing.

But you still have a dangerous cooker to deal with! I would suggest you should put off the cooker circuit at your consumer unit (fuse box) until it can be fixed.

Just now that is probably the last concern, but it has to be made safe and I would see if you can get a local sparky in to check it over. If that is not possible (or you / someone in your home is being shielded as at-risk from COVID-19) then do you have another cooking option like a microwave oven to use?

 

[DIYer Gaz]

Thanks guys. Yeah it was a quick touch and pull away of the hand. Would this be classed as a mild or severe shock given it did not burn my fingers or send me flying across the room? I may have used an expletive or two.

 

[pc1966]

Thanks guys. Yeah it was a quick touch and pull away of the hand. Would this be classed as a mild or severe shock given it did not burn my fingers or send me flying across the room? I may have used an expletive or two.

It sounds like a "mild shock" as you had limited contact and were able to pull away.

The bigger risk is when the shock is hand-to-hand or (in your case suspect) hand-to-foot as then it passes around the heart and can cause fibrillation (disruption of the beating pattern) and that is the most common reason for death, not major burns.

What makes things worse is the shock causes involuntary contraction, in your case probably a pull-away movement, but if you have gripped round something like a pipe/handle/etc then you find you simply can't let go no matter how you try.

These days a lot of circuits have RCD (residual current device) protection to detect the most common danger of a shock from live to earth but not all houses have that fitted, and some don't have it on fixed circuits such as cookers, etc.

As RCD became cheaper over the years the wiring regulations started to specify them on more types of circuit, but the regulations are not retrospective - you don't have to update house wiring that is otherwise safe to the standard it was installed to - and so it takes decades for these to become common.

 

[Strima]

As has been said contact the NHS. All they will do is stick you on the little machine that goes ping for a while to ensure your heart rhythm is correct. Most local treatment centres will be able to do this rather than A&E.

Sooner rather than later.

 

[James]

My concern is that contacting the metal box SHOULD NOT GIVE YOU A SHOCK.

There may be a damaged cable and or a missing earth.
Please get this switched off at the fuse box until it can be properly checked for safety.

 

[DIYer Gaz]

It sounds like a "mild shock" as you had limited contact and were able to pull away.

The bigger risk is when the shock is hand-to-hand or (in your case suspect) hand-to-foot as then it passes around the heart and can cause fibrillation (disruption of the beating pattern) and that is the most common reason for death, not major burns.

What makes things worse is the shock causes involuntary contraction, in your case probably a pull-away movement, but if you have gripped round something like a pipe/handle/etc then you find you simply can't let go no matter how you try.

These days a lot of circuits have RCD (residual current device) protection to detect the most common danger of a shock from live to earth but not all houses have that fitted, and some don't have it on fixed circuits such as cookers, etc.

As RCD became cheaper over the years the wiring regulations started to specify them on more types of circuit, but the regulations are not retrospective - you don't have to update house wiring that is otherwise safe to the standard it was installed to - and so it takes decades for these to become common.

Thanks for the explanation. That is worrying that is passed around my heart! Worried about getting checked out with the current pandemic!

 

[telectrix]

check that your pulse is regular. relaxed it should be < 70 bpm.

 

[pc1966]

Thanks for the explanation. That is worrying that is passed around my heart! Worried about getting checked out with the current pandemic!

With "dry" fingers (i.e. not soaking wet like bathroom, etc) and screw-sized contact area you probably won't have had more than around 25-50mA and it sounds like your contact time would have been a fraction of a second, so looking at the typical danger levels here:

Electrical injury - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are probably were roughly in the middle of that graph, possibly in in the green area, maybe in to the yellow if contact longer than 1/4 second, but unlikely to have entered the red zone where there is an increasing danger to health/life.

Still best to speak to the NHS direct line and getting a medial opinion based on your health history and so on.

As said already, we (as electrical folk, not medical) are more worried by the risk your cooker may be/become live and present a greater risk of the same or worse!

 

[Midwest]

Thanks for the explanation. That is worrying that is passed around my heart! Worried about getting checked out with the current pandemic!

Ring them God damn you! That's said in a rather fatherly voice.

 

[Ziggie]

The hospitals are working normally. Get there now. They will run a heart trace and its best to be sure.

Do not waste time chatting

 

[radiohead]

Thanks guys. Yeah it was a quick touch and pull away of the hand. Would this be classed as a mild or severe shock given it did not burn my fingers or send me flying across the room? I may have used an expletive or two.

Pleeeese...NO! NO! NO!
I gave you credit for not claiming to have been thrown across the room and now you've gone and completely ruined it by suggesting you could have been!!
For the record.
Anyone claiming to have been thrown across the room is telling whoppers.

 

[Vortigern]

If you are in my area I will come and take a look at it and make safe. I am on the register of emergency call out electricians and with precautions will happily help out. I have registered on local neighbourhood site and will do first call free on it. As these are unusual times.

 

[telectrix]

If you are in my area I will come and take a look at it and make safe. I am on the register of emergency call out electricians and with precautions will happily help out. I have registered on local neighbourhood site and will do first call free on it. As these are unusual times.

is it snowing where you are?

 

[DIYer Gaz]

Pleeeese...NO! NO! NO!
I gave you credit for not claiming to have been thrown across the room and now you've gone and completely ruined it by suggesting you could have been!!
For the record.
Anyone claiming to have been thrown across the room is telling whoppers.

Apologies I was not incoming I was thrown across the room. I remained in the same spot it just jolted my arm back. Can I have the credit back now please?
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Thank you guys for all of your input it has been appreciated! I ended up phoning and they advised a check at A&E like you all suggested. Went on one if those beeps machines got about 20 seconds and the Doctor said all looks fine. I think what I touched was the livewire (from my research and the information posted in here).

 

[pc1966]

Good to hear all is well with you!

But how is the cooker? Switched off at the board we hope.

 

[DIYer Gaz]

Good to hear all is well with you!

But how is the cooker? Switched off at the board we hope.

Hahaha, thanks and yeah off at board flicked off the switch labelled cooker on my fuse box. Would the trip have limited the 9volts when I touched it or would it not have made a difference.

 

[pc1966]

Hahaha, thanks and yeah off at board flicked off the switch labelled cooker on my fuse box.

Good to hear, hopefully you can get someone out soon to take a look.

Would the trip have limited the 9volts when I touched it or would it not have made a difference.

Not sure I understand. If you can post a picture of the consumer unit (fuse box) we might be able to see if it was RCD protected or not.

The 30mA style of RCD is designed to provide additional protection to personnel ("additional" here means after the usual steps of insulation, barriers, etc, designed to prevent contact with live parts in the first place). You can still get a nasty surprise but it ought to disconnect fast enough to keep you out of the danger zone under normal circumstances.

But RCD don't always work, and you should test them twice a year to make sure they do trip when an artificial fault is generated by the test button! When doing such tests remember to shut down and switch off at the mains PCs, TiVo boxes, smart TVs, fridge/freezers, etc, that might not like being switched off and back on quickly while you do the tests.

 

[telectrix]

Hahaha, thanks and yeah off at board flicked off the switch labelled cooker on my fuse box. Would the trip have limited the 9volts when I touched it or would it not have made a difference.

the trip limits the current through your body to <30mA, which is considered to be non-fatal (hopefully). the voltage is just the "force" that makes the current flow ( similar to water pressure making water flow when you turn a tap ( akin to making a circuit)).

 

[Vortigern]

is it snowing where you are?

Eh? don't get it?

 

[telectrix]

Eh? don't get it?

your avatar is white out.

 

[Vortigern]

I guess that is to do with the picture problem that I better not mention as I know our hosts...nvm. Mums the word!

 

[OnlQQker]

Sounds pretty bad OP, hope you're ok. Do you feel recharged?

Doesn't half wake you up though doesn't it...

 

[DIYer Gaz]

It sounds like a "mild shock" as you had limited contact and were able to pull away.

The bigger risk is when the shock is hand-to-hand or (in your case suspect) hand-to-foot as then it passes around the heart and can cause fibrillation (disruption of the beating pattern) and that is the most common reason for death, not major burns.

What makes things worse is the shock causes involuntary contraction, in your case probably a pull-away movement, but if you have gripped round something like a pipe/handle/etc then you find you simply can't let go no matter how you try.

These days a lot of circuits have RCD (residual current device) protection to detect the most common danger of a shock from live to earth but not all houses have that fitted, and some don't have it on fixed circuits such as cookers, etc.

As RCD became cheaper over the years the wiring regulations started to specify them on more types of circuit, but the regulations are not retrospective - you don't have to update house wiring that is otherwise safe to the standard it was installed to - and so it takes decades for these to become common.

Thanks for the explanation on the currents path through the body. I obviously have no idea of these things. I remember feeling my heart skip a beat when it occurred and despite being fully aware of everything going on, my just seeing black for a split second as my hand came away from what I have now deemed to be the livewire I caught at the back of the loose socket. I wondered if wearing a wedding ring on my left hand would at all allow the current to move from right to left arm hence feeling my heart jump/skip, or it would opt for arm to foot? It was just an after thought...

 

[pc1966]

I wondered if wearing a wedding ring on my left hand would at all allow the current to move from right to left arm hence feeling my heart jump/skip, or it would opt for arm to foot? It was just an after thought...

A metal ring (or watch strap, etc) is very bad for you (electrically speaking) as it provides a much larger contact area and is often moist with sweat below so it allows a much higher current to flow

Good job all is fine with you though, and with any luck the cooker will be sorted and no further incidents of this sort!

 

[DIYer Gaz]

Good to hear, hopefully you can get someone out soon to take a look.


Not sure I understand. If you can post a picture of the consumer unit (fuse box) we might be able to see if it was RCD protected or not.

The 30mA style of RCD is designed to provide additional protection to personnel ("additional" here means after the usual steps of insulation, barriers, etc, designed to prevent contact with live parts in the first place). You can still get a nasty surprise but it ought to disconnect fast enough to keep you out of the danger zone under normal circumstances.

But RCD don't always work, and you should test them twice a year to make sure they do trip when an artificial fault is generated by the test button! When doing such tests remember to shut down and switch off at the mains PCs, TiVo boxes, smart TVs, fridge/freezers, etc, that might not like being switched off and back on quickly while you do the tests.

Thanks for your reply. The box in a cupboard in my living room has seperate switches all labelled with the source it provides power to and all says 30 underneath each switch. However, the switch never tripped when I touched the live wire, is this due to me creating a closed circuit with the livewire and the ground?
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A metal ring (or watch strap, etc) is very bad for you (electrically speaking) as it provides a much larger contact area and is often moist with sweat below so it allows a much higher current to flow

Good job all is fine with you though, and with any luck the cooker will be sorted and no further incidents of this sort!

Thanks for the reply. Yeah It was just a wedding ring on the other hand. Cooker is sorted now btw, had someone out yesterday. As you obviously know about the dynamics of electrical current, would there be any after effects I should keep an eye out for? Obviously I have had the ECG about 16 hours after the incident and that said the heart seemed fine. I was not sure with it being a bad shock if there could be any possible delay in symptoms, I think the situation has really scared me given I have not had much of an appetite for a day or two but I suppose that is more mental than physical.
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Sounds pretty bad OP, hope you're ok. Do you feel recharged?

Doesn't half wake you up though doesn't it...

Thanks, yeah I felt recharged after it initially occurred. It was weird and scary. Have you had something similar?

 

[pc1966]

Thanks for your reply. The box in a cupboard in my living room has seperate switches all labelled with the source it provides power to and all says 30 underneath each switch. However, the switch never tripped when I touched the live wire, is this due to me creating a closed circuit with the livewire and the ground?

There are two type of protection in general use that go by the title "Automatic Disconnection of Supply" (ADS) and they are:

• Over-current protection, which is intended to deal with a major fault that could cause the wire to overheat (and ultimately catch fire)
• Earth leakage (residual current) protection, which is intended to protect against electric shock (and to a degree fires from insulation damage such as mice chewing the PVC layers)

Every circuit (with very few exceptions) will have over current protection, but that will not save you from electric shock as the difference is levels are enormous! Your cooker is rated at 30A, and typically you would need 5 times that to disconnect in a fraction of a second, so somewhere around 150A.

Recently (as in last decade or two) there have been moves to cover more circuits with RCD protection but it is still not universal. In particular, a fixed circuit like a cooker may not have had an RCD fitted until recently. To protect you from electric shock an RCD would be designed to trip at 30mA = 0.03A or 5000 times smaller!

If you can post a photo of the fuse box we can tell you more, but from what happened it seems very unlikely you have RCD protection on that circuit.

electrical current, would there be any after effects I should keep an eye out for? Obviously I have had the ECG about 16 hours after the incident and that said the heart seemed fine. I was not sure with it being a bad shock if there could be any possible delay

Without signs of burns, a normal ECG, and no other feeling of problems, it would be very unlikely you have anything to worry about!