Do you lock off?

[HandySparks]

When working on domestic premises with a modern board, do you lock off the circuit breaker or main switch?

I sometimes do, but not often.

I make an assessment based on:
Who else is in the house. Just me, or several others? Are young children or confused old people present?
The height of the board. Is it out of reach to someone standing on the floor?
The location of the board. Is it close to or visible from the work location? Would someone have to walk past me to reach it?
The type of work I'm doing. Am I replacing an accessory or just changing a lamp?

Shoot me down.

 

[Pete999]

Lock off every time, you are a long time dead Handysparks

 

[gutterball]

It only takes a minute to lock off death if forever.

 

[Maddison]

as a whole it should always be done as we know.. bs7671 states when aggravated by other trades main switch can be locked off for up to 2 hours for "maintenance" ... lol

 

[Andy78]

In domestic premises I only sometimes lock off with a locking kit. I do however always safely isolate and keep the situation fully under my control, and there are many more ways than locking off to achieve this.

 

[Bobster]

In an industrial environment, if I saw someone working on a machine e.g replacing a motor without locking off they would be fired on the spot.

There are times where isolation isn't possible e.g for testing/fault finding. That's a whole different ball game, different precautions would be in place.

 

[HandySparks]

OK, couple of examples.

1) Adding a new socket to an upstairs bedroom. The CU is in the hallway, 2ft off the floor with its hinged cover missing. There are small kids running round the house and you know you're going to have to leave the job from time to time to bring in tools and materials. Of course you lock off.

2) The single homeowner has left you alone in the house to replace the kitchen ceiling light. The CU is also in the kitchen, located just below ceiling height. Both the CU and the work are out of reach from floor level. Would I lock off? No.

It's all a matter of assessing the risk. My most serious injury as a tradesman was from falling from a height of 5ft off a pair of steps (not too serious, but bad enough). I've also had numerous cuts, usually from stripping cable sheath.

Electrical incidents have involved cutting through a couple of live cables that I thought were dead (a non-contact voltstick would have warned me otherwise). When I'm terminating cables which are part of an existing installation, I use VDE tools and, where possible, make a habit of handling them as though they might be live. As Andy78 says, it's not just about locking off.

 

[Octopus]

Its all about risk assessment...... now where is my lock off kit??

edit: I have just been working on a 3036 cu. Cu in cupboard, fuse on shelf out of reach. Is that locked off?

 

[Tidy Max]

Its all about risk assessment...... now where is my lock off kit??

edit: I have just been working on a 3036 cu. Cu in cupboard, fuse on shelf out of reach. Is that locked off?

I am going with no. If you had the fuse in your pocket or van then yes.
Although theres nothing to stop someone from pulling another fuse and energising the circuit you are working on i suppose.

 

[Andy78]

Electrical incidents have involved cutting through a couple of live cables that I thought were dead (a non-contact voltstick might have warned me otherwise).

Changed that for you.

I have (read, had) a pair of sidecutters that would disagree with your original quote. I once let myself be cajoled into using a voltstick mid cable on a job that was not my own. One of the very few times I have neglected to safely isolate, but one of the biggest reminders. Also the first time I ever used a voltstick, and one has not been in my hand since.

 

[Octopus]

I am going with no. If you had the fuse in your pocket or van then yes.
Although theres nothing to stop someone from pulling another fuse and energising the circuit you are working on i suppose.

And I was working in the hallway directly outside the cupboard!

 

[HandySparks]

Changed that for you.

I have (read, had) a pair of sidecutters that would disagree with your original quote. I once let myself be cajoled into using a voltstick mid cable on a job that was not my own. One of the very few times I have neglected to safely isolate, but one of the biggest reminders. Also the first time I ever used a voltstick, and one has not been in my hand since.

I'd agree that they're not the most reliable of instruments. I always check that they're functional before and after use, preferably on a live cable if not, then by the static on my clothes!

 

[Plonker 3]

Safe isolation of a 3036 would require the use of a blanking module after removal of the fuse carrier as you are potentially leaving exposed live parts, as safe isolation is prevent electric shock to anyone not just the person working on the circuit. This would also prevent accidental replacement of a fuse. So in answer to Murdochs question no it isn't safely isolaoted

 

[Plonker 3]

And I was working in the hallway directly outside the cupboard!

Until you get distracted by a phone call, need the toilet etc

 

[ruston]

I am going with no. If you had the fuse in your pocket or van then yes.
Although theres nothing to stop someone from pulling another fuse and energising the circuit you are working on i suppose.

With those it is always best to remove the cable for that reason.

As others have said in a domestic it is a bit of common sense applied , but if other trades, kids etc, you have to make it so that you are the only one who can get the power back on by whatever means work for you.

Industrial is a different ball game as Rob has said.
Circumstances dictate events

 

[Andy78]

I'd agree that they're not the most reliable of instruments. I always check that they're functional before and after use, preferably on a live cable if not, then by the static on my clothes!

It worked before, it worked after, it still threw me a curveball. You are damn right they are not the most reliable of instruments, or use any reliable method to function.

 

[HandySparks]

Safe isolation of a 3036 would require the use of a blanking module after removal of the fuse carrier as you are potentially leaving exposed live parts, as safe isolation is prevent electric shock to anyone not just the person working on the circuit. This would also prevent accidental replacement of a fuse. So in answer to Murdochs question no it isn't safely isolaoted

It may not be 'safely isolated', but would you do it (given the circumstances outlined by Murdoch)?

 

[Andy78]

Safe isolation of a 3036 would require the use of a blanking module after removal of the fuse carrier as you are potentially leaving exposed live parts, as safe isolation is prevent electric shock to anyone not just the person working on the circuit. This would also prevent accidental replacement of a fuse. So in answer to Murdochs question no it isn't safely isolaoted

I see the point about being able to replace a fuse into the slot.
Is not the barrier requirement for both live parts and the front of an enclosure IP2X ? This would be afforded by the fuse base surely, therefore not leaving exposed live parts ?

 

[Plonker 3]

It may not be 'safely isolated', but would you do it (given the circumstances outlined by Murdoch)?

I probably would, but that doesn't mean that safe isolation is followed does it? If I were to get electrocuted you can almost be certain the coroner would attribute this to the cause.

 

[HandySparks]

I probably would, but that doesn't mean that safe isolation is followed does it? If I were to get electrocuted you can almost be certain the coroner would attribute this to the cause.

Indeed. And the poll is about what you actually do rather than what you think you should do!

 

[Plonker 3]

I see the point about being able to replace a fuse into the slot.
Is not the barrier requirement for both live parts and the front of an enclosure IP2X ? This would be afforded by the fuse base surely, therefore not leaving exposed live parts ?

It is indeed.

 

[Plonker 3]

Indeed. And the poll is about what you actually do rather than what you think you should do!

True, but I would like to think we are discussing the use of safe isolation rather than what we may do. Because as strange as it sounds I am sure there will be some who read this and think that we as competent sparks don't need to safely isolate so they don't need to neither.

I suppose one way of covering our backsides would be to say we have carried out a dynamic risk assessment.

 

[ruston]

I took the meaning as "do we practice what we preach." The degree of safe isolation (in a domestic) is proportional to the circumstances . You have to know that the circuit cannot be energized except by you.

 

[davesparks]

I always attach a 'do not switch on' sign in front of the DB, and keep the fuse in my pocket or lock the mcb off if there is anyone else in the building. Unless I am in a position to see anyone approach the DB

 

[bigdavs83]

I'll echo what's been said already. I work in commercial/industrial and we have been provided with the very fetching bumbag lock off kit. If it's seen or found out we have not applied the rams set out and not used a lock off kit its gross misconduct and up the road you go minus the van keys!! I have however been guilty in the past of not locking off whilst doing homers or working in my own house. It's very easy to get relaxed around the potential killer of electricity because we work with it every day and getting a "belt" somehow comes as part of the job! It shouldn't and no ones life is worth taking chances.

 

[baldsparkies]

Domestic !!
Remove cover, disconnect circuit cables from breaker, replace cover.
Started in the trade 1970, still here and going strong.
Works for me.
Commercial different ball game, but your after the same end result.
Working on an electrical circuit without causing harm to yourself, another person, or the installation.

 

[Tidy Max]

I just wear marigolds and wellies. Time is money gents.

 

[baldsparkies]

I just wear marigolds and wellies. Time is money gents.

I prefer yellow, goes with my PPE

 

[Geordie Spark]

Always ............ whenever I remember (and the Poll button thingy doesn't work on my lappy)

 

[Adam W]

I know you're always supposed to lock off, but as others have said you do your own risk assessment - if everyone in the house knows you're working on the electrics, you've told them you're going to knock the power off for a bit, even put a bit of tape and maybe a note on the MCB, what's the likelihood of someone coming along and turning it back on without you noticing?