Regulation of industry

[JOHN-THE-SPARKY]

When will the electrical industry become completely regulated so only those trained and competent and up to date with current required qualifications can work on electricity, as to many bob the builders going to b n q getting all there vde rated tools than advertising at checkatrade or yell as the local spark with no liability insurance or underpinning knowledge on how to work safely

 

[Mikegh]

Legal action against the unregulated tradesman

Certification of the electrical installation being tied into other areas like mortgage and house insurance, house sale, council etc etc

Either target the tradesman or shift the onus onto the customer

 

[sparksfly]

Well you only have to look at Part P. Schemes will happily take your money and tick boxes. Yet I witness kitchen companies, sub contracting out to persons who were asking for advice on the latest Regs. No doubt, no testing was performed after extra sockets etc. New builds are exempt from part P, yet we are crippled with paperwork. What are the schemes doing about it ? .....Self promotion. Maybe have a central trades licence/body only. Sell certain items to licence/approved trades thus removing some of the issues at source. At the mo it is impossible to police. Im with you guys... regulate it. BS7671 statutory but less bloated...1st edition anyone?

 

[SJD]

Despite the variable standard of rental EICRs we've seen on here recently, I'd say the recent regulations requiring one have improved the safety of rental properties in general - and in quite a few I've done, the landlord has become aware of previous work done badly. If you required an EICR e.g. for a house sale or mortgage, over time you'd flag up a lot of unsafe work, and owners would start to realise it was better to have work done properly in the first place.

 

[Dustydazzler]

You will never completey elimiNate poor electrical work nor will you stop plumber , builder and even diyers from wiring their own projects

what is needed is some sort of 3rd party certification scheme where by a builder or diyer can have their work checked and then signed off once it meets the basic requirements

stopping B&Q selling consumer units won’t make any difference either

 

[Pretty Mouth]

No more regulation please. It will create more expensive BS to navigate for those that care, and will be ignored by those that don't.

 

[UNG]

Legal action against the unregulated tradesman

Certification of the electrical installation being tied into other areas like mortgage and house insurance, house sale, council etc etc

Either target the tradesman or shift the onus onto the customer

There are plenty of people doing electrical work who are regulated by schemes that will never make the grade yet the scams give them some credibility to mislead the customer
And there are plenty of unregulated electricians that can do a better job but can't lower their standards to join a scam
Can never understand why UKAS has never clamped down on some of the scams practices and removed their accreditation to run a competent persons scheme

 

[GBDamo]

All additional regulation seems to achieve is to insert a parasite class between the customer and the service provider.

Same with government grants, all the money is made by those administering the grant/scheme.

Any incentive to the customer is simply loaded onto the cost of the job and hoovered up by the spivs.

Look at EICRs for landlords, the landlord will be paying the going rate then the letting agent takes their 'management fee' and gives the job to the lowest bidder with no concern whatsoever for the quality of job their client gets.

So, a government intervention to improve standards ends up making the situation worse.

 

[telectrix]

a start would be to make it like gas safe...illegal to do any work on electrical installations except by a registered electrician with proven competence. a national database could easily be compiled.

 

[Zerax]

a start would be to make it like gas safe...illegal to do any work on electrical installations except by a registered electrician with proven competence. a national database could easily be compiled.

Yeah... but I've seen some shocking quality gas work by fully paid up Gas Safe plumbers... so not sure that's the answer. It would defo help though.

 

[Zerax]

I think it's fine to leave the scam businesses as they are... BUT... heavily penalise them for any shoddy workmanship done by one of their members. Anyone know how many 'electricians' have their membership cancelled each year ?

 

[telectrix]

I think it's fine to leave the scam businesses as they are... BUT... heavily penalise them for any shoddy workmanship done by one of their members. Anyone know how many 'electricians' have their membership cancelled each year ?

only those whose cheques bounce.

 

[sparksfly]

a start would be to make it like gas safe...illegal to do any work on electrical installations except by a registered electrician with proven competence. a national database could easily be compiled.

I agree...........I remember jumping for joy at the common sense approach when "Electric safe" register was born....it all made sense to joe public...... but then NIC elbowed in and had their register..... Electric safe disappeared.....CPS appeared. No wonder the electrical industry is in disarray...... usually money related.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Too much money to be made out of the CPS , it’s easy money

sod safety , standards and quality its All about the money

show me the money and I will show you a slick run scam

 

[JOHN-THE-SPARKY]

I think it is now time that the competent person scheme is scrapped as it is a money-making profit for an organisation with minimal interest in the industry so complete regulation of industry identical to gas if not up to date with the current qualification that is required by industry you will not be allowed to work on anything to do with electricity

 

[Dustydazzler]

Way too much money to made out of the CPS scams for any significant change to happen

only way is for electricians to boycott the scams but this won’t happen either

 

[telectrix]

only way is for electricians to boycott the scams but this won’t happen either.
I did it. so could every other spark.

 

[UNG]

I think it is now time that the competent person scheme is scrapped as it is a money-making profit for an organisation with minimal interest in the industry so complete regulation of industry identical to gas if not up to date with the current qualification that is required by industry you will not be allowed to work on anything to do with electricity

So you want to scrap one scam then highlight another scam that you appear to find acceptable

 

[JOHN-THE-SPARKY]

Scotland use select.org.uk
Thoughly regulated and respected by all from client's to engineers
Shame uk does not follow Scotland's example

 

[HappyHippyDad]

When will the electrical industry become completely regulated so only those trained and competent and up to date with current required qualifications can work on electricity, as to many bob the builders going to b n q getting all there vde rated tools than advertising at checkatrade or yell as the local spark with no liability insurance or underpinning knowledge on how to work safely

Hi John,
What makes you think this is happening? Have you read some recent articles? If so, pop them up, they would be an interesting read. Where do you get your information?
My gut feeling is that most electricians who advertise themselves as such probably have the required insurance, knowledge, registration etc etc, but there will always be a small amount who don't.

 

[JOHN-THE-SPARKY]

Hi John,
What makes you think this is happening? Have you read some recent articles? If so, pop them up, they would be an interesting read. Where do you get your information?
My gut feeling is that most electricians who advertise themselves as such probably have the required insurance, knowledge, registration etc etc, but there will always be a small amount who don't.

To you all, some idea how bad this situation is I tapped in my postcode on Niceic to find an electrician near not one was gold carded and not one had 2391-52 qualification
This makes the competent person scheme a complete joke
When cowboys like the above are advertising on the Niceic website
1. None had been registered at companies house
2. None are gold card standard
3. I did not get to question liability insurance or professional indemnity insurance
4. Cash payment only accepted when asked are you vat registered or have a business bank account to accept bank transfer and issue receipt for work carried out
none of the above had this in place

Why make the jokers undercut and undermine the skilled and time served trades that have the underpinning knowledge to do the task safely and correctly and to meet the required industry standard

 

[UNG]

Scotland use select.org.uk
Thoughly regulated and respected by all from client's to engineers
Shame uk does not follow Scotland's example

But Scotland chose not to adopt Part P so it is a bit too late to follow Scotland's example now
But then again I'm sure there will be similar problems north of the border

To you all, some idea how bad this situation is I tapped in my postcode on Niceic to find an electrician near not one was gold carded and not one had 2391-52 qualification
This makes the competent person scheme a complete joke
When cowboys like the above are advertising on the Niceic website
1. None had been registered at companies house
2. None are gold card standard
3. I did not get to question liability insurance or professional indemnity insurance
4. Cash payment only accepted when asked are you vat registered or have a business bank account to accept bank transfer and issue receipt for work carried out
none of the above had this in place

Why make the jokers undercut and undermine the skilled and time served trades that have the underpinning knowledge to do the task safely and correctly and to meet the required industry standard

Not quite sure what your crusade is all about what your highlighting is not new it has been discussed many times on here
Does becoming a LTD company give your company any more credibility than one that isn't, the guy that is not LTD probably would have more credibility because if something goes ---- up he has more to lose
As with a lot of recognition's does the gold card have that much kudos given they keep manipulating the attainment level
Is the 2391-52 any better than all the other variants of the 2391

You bang your drum about upto date qualifications so thereby promoting another scam I like many others on here can pick up a book read it, interpret it and act on it but no we are told we need a course and an exam on top of a set of new books every 2 - 3 years that all have to be paid for

Personally after 40+ years in the industry I can't see the attraction of this industry now a massive amount responsibility and the rewards don't match it the last 15 years has seen standards fall of a cliff, would I recommend it to anybody leaving school and my answer is no, to undo the damage of the last 15 - 20 years will take several decades.
At the moment it is what it is, the real joke of the industry is the 17 day and 5 week courses to get qualified with the C&G turning a blind eye to their own course and exam entry requirements and then CPS's that recognise it as creating a competent person

 

[Pretty Mouth]

1. None had been registered at companies house

Why do you deem this necessary?

2. None are gold card standard

Same question again, why necessary?

4. Cash payment only accepted when asked are you vat registered or have a business bank account to accept bank transfer and issue receipt for work carried out
none of the above had this in place

Why would VAT registration or the type of bank account be an indicator of competence?

When cowboys like the above are advertising on the Niceic website

How do you know that they are cowboys?

 

[JOHN-THE-SPARKY]

But Scotland chose not to adopt Part P so it is a bit too late to follow Scotland's example now
But then again I'm sure there will be similar problems north of the border


Not quite sure what your crusade is all about what your highlighting is not new it has been discussed many times on here
Does becoming a LTD company give your company any more credibility than one that isn't, the guy that is not LTD probably would have more credibility because if something goes ---- up he has more to lose
As with a lot of recognition's does the gold card have that much kudos given they keep manipulating the attainment level
Is the 2391-52 any better than all the other variants of the 2391

You bang your drum about upto date qualifications so thereby promoting another scam I like many others on here can pick up a book read it, interpret it and act on it but no we are told we need a course and an exam on top of a set of new books every 2 - 3 years that all have to be paid for

Personally after 40+ years in the industry I can't see the attraction of this industry now a massive amount responsibility and the rewards don't match it the last 15 years has seen standards fall of a cliff, would I recommend it to anybody leaving school and my answer is no, to undo the damage of the last 15 - 20 years will take several decades.
At the moment it is what it is, the real joke of the industry is the 17 day and 5 week courses to get qualified with the C&G turning a blind eye to their own course and exam entry requirements and then CPS's that recognise it as creating a competent person

Respect your comments and remarks
Training schools need to be regulated to start as fast track courses need to be banned then total regulation of electrical industry so everyone knows where they stand

 

[UNG]

Respect your comments and remarks
Training schools need to be regulated to start as fast track courses need to be banned then total regulation of electrical industry so everyone knows where they stand

Why do you crave this total regulation that normally ends up appearing as over regulation, to me it sounds like someone has upset you and you are having a rant

 

[lozarus]

Where do you draw the line with "competent"? There's many different routes to the trade and updates / qualifications that may or may not be relevant I'd say it's a hard line to draw. I work with a chap who did his apprenticeship about 50 years ago. His most recent qualification is 17th - but nothing much else from the last 15 years. His work is perfect and his knowledge more than adequate for the type of work he's doing (maintenance, additional points etc).

 

[sparksfly]

only way is for electricians to boycott the scams but this won’t happen either.
I did it. so could every other spark.

Boycott is a powerful thing.
If I were part of a culture where the wearing of berets, stripey tops and onions around my neck....road blocks...opps sorry...where was I ....
Ah yes boycott ... how long would the CPS schemes last if their members turned their backs on it ?