Thx to the forum over the years

[Steve-S]

It's quite well known that especially push fit wagos are better when used with solid core rather than flex.

So the answer is fit ferrules then, Which should be on stranded cable anyhow.

Back to the melting of the Wago type of connector. We need to know the detailed circumstances.

 

[Steve-S]

Have seen them fail with built in connectors on fluorescent light fittings many times over. They are not the solution to every problem.
however they are good and I do use them when the application is suitable.

Obviously the light manufacturers own brand of push in. Avoid cheap fittings I suppose. The Wago and In-Sure have excellent reputations.

 

[mainline]

So the answer is fit ferrules then, Which should be on stranded cable anyhow.

If you're talking about the Wago 221 with levers, the manufacturer's say no ferrules are necessary

If you're talking about the Wago 2273 leaf spring terminals without levers, then these are only compatible with solid core wires. So you can't use stranded wires, even with a ferrule. In the event you manage to stick a wire with ferrule in the wago, you'll probably manage to push it half way in, but the indents left by the crimping tool on the ferrule will catch on the leaf spring and it will stay stuck there forever, can't push it in, can't pull it out. Also a big adantage of wago 2273 is the wires can turn inside the terminal which really helps when squeezing all the wires inside a junction box, and that can't happen with a ferrule. It's definitely not listed for use with stranded wires, no matter what's on the tip, so a definite no

Back to the melting of the Wago type of connector. We need to know the detailed circumstances.

Who's we ? 3kw immersion with long periods of use 2.5mm t&e into wago 221 feeding 2.5 flex to the heater melted the wago and went open circuit.
I crimped it in the end in a junction box, no problems since.

I have seen the video comparing wago, choc box and crimp and if I remember correctly they all went well past the rated current.

Screw type connections are everywhere and like already said have been used and reliable for decades
Lever type connections haven't yet been time proven, especially where moisture is present, I wonder how a wago spring would handle 20yrs in a damp environment.


What connectors did you use on your pair of 4mm down to 2.5mm flex ????

 

[Mike Johnson]

We've had another member, who posted from a couple of different accounts, propose an almost identical installation to your own, with sockets spurred from lever connector joints, minimal number of circuits to reduce afdd cost etc. That member also shunned discussion of their ideas, but it must be understood that this is a discussion forum, where members share opinions, and not an online pulpit toward which no dissent can be directed.

Well said, not a sarcastic comment, but meant.

 

[nicebutdim]

So the answer is fit ferrules then, Which should be on stranded cable anyhow.

Ferrules are intended to protect fine stranded conductors from damage and to marshall them into one single core. Coarse stranded conductors, such as those found in 4mm T&E, do not benefit from use of ferrules.

Obviously the light manufacturers own brand of push in. Avoid cheap fittings I suppose. The Wago and In-Sure have excellent reputations.

Harland & Wolff had a long established reputation as excellent shipbuilders, yet that was of little comfort to those who perished on the Titanic.


Of the Wago connectors commonly sold in the UK, there are clearly printed recommendations on each pack and also available from the manufacturer's website.

773 push fit connectors are suitable for use with solid and coarse stranded conductors.
2273 push fit connectors are suitable for use with solid conductors.
2773 push fit connectors are suitable for use with solid and coarse stranded conductors.
222 lever connectors are suitable for use with solid, coarse stranded and fine stranded conductors.
221 lever connectors are suitable for use with solid, coarse stranded and fine stranded conductors.

Rated current varies between connector type and more than one rating may be printed on individual connectors. For confirmation of rating approved in UK, one needs to check Wago data sheets and be aware of any specific details found therein which may affect this rating.

InSure connectors I know less about and apply a personal current limit of 6A to those I'm trying to use up.

 

[mainline]

Ferrules are intended to protect fine stranded conductors from damage and to marshall them into one single core. Coarse stranded conductors, such as those found in 4mm T&E, do not benefit from use of ferrules.



Harland & Wolff had a long established reputation as excellent shipbuilders, yet that was of little comfort to those who perished on the Titanic.


Of the Wago connectors commonly sold in the UK, there are clearly printed recommendations on each pack and also available from the manufacturer's website.

773 push fit connectors are suitable for use with solid and coarse stranded conductors.
2273 push fit connectors are suitable for use with solid conductors.
2773 push fit connectors are suitable for use with solid and coarse stranded conductors.
222 lever connectors are suitable for use with solid, coarse stranded and fine stranded conductors.
221 lever connectors are suitable for use with solid, coarse stranded and fine stranded conductors.

Rated current varies between connector type and more than one rating may be printed on individual connectors. For confirmation of rating approved in UK, one needs to check Wago data sheets and be aware of any specific details found therein which may affect this rating.

InSure connectors I know less about and apply a personal current limit of 6A to those I'm trying to use up.

Use of these type of connectors isn't as straight forward as sometimes thought.

For instance, when using some ideal junction boxes they are rated at 16 amps even if you're using 32 amp connectors.

O/P hasn't replied to the question of what make/type of connector he used to make the 4 mm / flex /singles spur, although he was on this morning.

 

[nicebutdim]

Use of these type of connectors isn't as straight forward as sometimes thought.

For instance, when using some ideal junction boxes they are rated at 16 amps even if you're using 32 amp connectors.

O/P hasn't replied to the question of what make/type of connector he used to make the 4 mm / flex /singles spur, although he was on this morning.

That's what I meant by checking data sheet for specific information which may affect rating.

 

[Steve-S]

That's what I meant by checking data sheet for specific information which may affect rating.

Good point. The In-Sure 'blue' junction box is rated at 24 amps according to Screwfix, even if the blue In-Sure Gen 2 Lever 32A connectors are used inside. The similar grey Wago junction box is rated at 41 amps.

I never used any of these boxes. I did use 16A screwless Dboxes for LED downlights on a 3A DP RCBO.

I used Wago connectors. I would be happy using the In-Sure blue lever connectors which going by Youtube, etc, have good rep, appearing to be equally as good, and I believe cheaper than Wago for similar products.

 

[Steve-S]

We've had another member, who posted from a couple of different accounts, propose an almost identical installation to your own, with sockets spurred from lever connector joints, minimal number of circuits to reduce afdd cost etc. That member also shunned discussion of their ideas, but it must be understood that this is a discussion forum, where members share opinions, and not an online pulpit toward which no dissent can be directed.

He, and others, may have been the one who tagged me onto using Wago screwless, although I have seen radials wired that way on the Continent, to avoid heavy current drawing radials current running though socket terminals. I have seen radials in a star formation with each socket's cable running back to a terminal block near the main panel with one cable back to the breaker. Lots of cable but failure points mainly clustered on one easy to get to and test point

If I recall a few here were on about having all sockets as spurs off a ring on this forum. Since a kid I always thought a ring's current must run 'not' through the ring's cable not through the terminals of the socket, for safety reasons I have outlined. But never mind. Others have come up with good nuggets of various info over the past three years or so.

I am on pulpit. Fist I thank those who gave me the info of the latest equipment and regs available. Cannot recall names. I would never have known that a ring is now limited to a 32A breaker. I have seen a few 4mm rings with 40-45A breakers in the past, now they are against regs. I am preaching what I did, and justifying it, not coming for advice. I am a professional. People telling me to add more expensive needless circuits will go in one ear and out the other.

Once again thanks to those positive people in the past (names unknown).

 

[DPG]

He, and others, may have been the one who tagged me onto using Wago screwless, although I have seen radials wired that way on the Continent, to avoid heavy current drawing radials current running though socket terminals. I have seen radials in a star formation with each socket's cable running back to a terminal block near the main panel with one cable back to the breaker. Lots of cable but failure points mainly clustered on one easy to get to and test point

If I recall a few here were on about having all sockets as spurs off a ring on this forum. Since a kid I always thought a ring's current must run 'not' through the ring's cable not through the terminals of the socket, for safety reasons I have outlined. But never mind. Others have come up with good nuggets of various info over the past three years or so.

I am on pulpit. Fist I thank those who gave me the info of the latest equipment and regs available. Cannot recall names. I would never have known that a ring is now limited to a 32A breaker. I have seen a few 4mm rings with 40-45A breakers in the past, now they are against regs. I am preaching what I did, and justifying it, not coming for advice. I am a professional. People telling me to add more expensive needless circuits will go in one ear and out the other.

Once again thanks to those positive people in the past (names unknown).

Not sure there's much point posting on a forum if you don't want to hear alternative views.

But having said that, I would still have two separate lighting circuits. If it's coming down to the cost of one RCBO then things are pretty tight.