Troublesome Customer

[highspark]

I have a customer who asked me to split labour and materials costs on quote which I did....I recieved a voicemail today saying she wants every single material itemised plus cost!!! Does she think I just sit round with all this free time? I've already done something I don't normally do because she asked me for a good quote as she has more work for me. That being splitting labour and materials costs on a written quote. I haven't even put a mark up on materials for her and I've knocked off 30% of my labour. Not my mates because he would work for anything less! Anyone dealt with one of these people before. I get the feeling shes the type to hold the money back because a socket is out by 0.0001 degrees!

 

[telectrix]

tell her you'll do it for £100, ( cash ), and will deduct that from her final bill if she accepts the quote.

 

[jumpin jax]

saying she has more work for you is a try on normally, stick to your guns on the labour and say she can supply materials, give her a list and she can price it up, then any thing faulty or wrong is extras

 

[Octopus]

Do you need the business? If not I'd walk away.

 

[brooky25]

Get a quote from wholesaler and pass it on, then they cannot argue. You could also ask wholesaler to alter quote to add a markup without her knowing
Or if you have plenty of work and don't need job, price yourself out of it

 

[tombennetts]

i have, steer clear!

 

[Guitarist]

Once you start itemising to the nth degree you are opening yourself up for "I could have got it for a pound less from B&Q, why didn't you go there?"

 

[alarm man]

a price is a price,asked if you can do anything with the price,stock answer should be.yes i can put it up..she's playing you off against others to save 50p,id walk away you will be fighting to be paid once the jobs complete..

 

[mackers]

walk on by! sounds like a hiding to nowhere
this job would be far easier if it wasn't for those darn customers! LOL

 

[Octopus]

I am about to give the details of a LED fitting to my customer so she can buy 12 off. She'll get my price from my local supplier and I've told her not to go buying off the internet as if any are broken/wrong the cost to get them returned etc will be too much hassle.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Only happened once to me so i listed the items so they could get a proper match and listed my margin separately. I think when they realise the complexity of selecting the right parts it sort of puts them off. Was a commercial client though. Domestic, my beef is when they say they will buy the parts, which i let them do and they buy awful stuff thats a real pain to work with.

 

[Guitarist]

I don't mind customer buying gear, but I state what brand it must be. Ultimately, if it fails after 2 weeks we will be expected to put it right free of charge.

 

[bugsy]

I would tell her that with the greatest respect you have provided a materials and labour breakdown and if she is not happy suggest she gets another quote we experianced a simular situation with a developer who's wife was acting as Q.S. COMPLETE NIGHTMARE.
every application questioned even though we were working from a schedule of rates

 

[HandySparks]

Ultimately, if it fails after 2 weeks we will be expected to put it right free of charge.

I don't. I had a customer ask me to replace two PIR 500W floods with another two which had been in her loft for some time (could have been several years). I fitted them and then received a call a couple of days later saying that they were both faulty. I offered to supply and fit two new ones at my standard rate but she didn't take me up on the offer.

If I supply and fit, I sort out any problems quickly and FoC. Anything supplied by the customer (and installed correctly) which goes faulty gets sorted as a new job. I now add a large margin to the price of any outdoor PIR to cover the time involved in a proportion of replacements.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

see this kind of thing gets me......its not just about what stuff costs or how much the labour was/is......what we offer is a service......from initial consultation and survay of the job....through the first fix stage...second fix and completion...then handover....all done in an orderly and smooth manner so as to cause minimum disruption to the client and other trades.....what the hells up with some folk??.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

surely value for money`s the order of the day here.....

 

[Amp David]

I have had this once, on a loft conversion that was being overseen by the customer. After giving them the quote, over a week later he phoned asking for an itemised quote.

I told him that i didn't have the time to list every switch or socket and as the builder/joiner had told him it sounded expensive, i suggested he had them do the work if it was that easy!

Even now, 6 months down the line he still hasn't had the work done, so it wasn't just me who was expensive then lol

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I have had this once, on a loft conversion that was being overseen by the customer. After giving them the quote, over a week later he phoned asking for an itemised quote.

I told him that i didn't have the time to list every switch or socket and as the builder/joiner had told him it sounded expensive, i suggested he had them do the work if it was that easy!

Even now, 6 months down the line he still hasn't had the work done, so it wasn't just me who was expensive then lol

a time to negotiate and a time to walk...

 

[Knobhead]

All materials to be supplied by customer, to the agreed standard (specified manufacturers).
Any failed supplied equipment, will be replaced at the customers expense, at the installation companies normal hourly rates.

Should either:
A/ get rid of them
B/ get them to think again.

 

[Amp David]

a time to negotiate and a time to walk...

Hell yes, and I walked well away from it!

 

[Knobhead]

I have had this once, on a loft conversion that was being overseen by the customer. After giving them the quote, over a week later he phoned asking for an itemised quote.

I told him that i didn't have the time to list every switch or socket and as the builder/joiner had told him it sounded expensive, i suggested he had them do the work if it was that easy!

Even now, 6 months down the line he still hasn't had the work done, so it wasn't just me who was expensive then lol

Knowing the area your in, they’ll want 10% luck money back if they pay up!

 

[Amp David]

Come to think of it, why would anyone want a loft conversion on a caravan!

 

[kenny7askew]

i have customers pubs and the like who want a breakdown of charges but i tel them its not that simple afterall you have to measure the job up collect the kit from the wholesalers run about,pay scheme membership,take time to do certs ect,i say to them when i come into your bar for a beer or food i dont ask for a breakdown of your material and labour costs and profit margin so dont ask me for mine.

 

[Knobhead]

You’ve made my day! Caravan loft conversion :cheesy:

I’m from Buxton originally.

Did a lot of wedding photography in the area. Father would always dig the wad of notes out of the back pocket, carefully count each note and then stand there with his hand out for his luck money! Once it got known I paid back I was snowed under with work, what they didn’t know was I had two price lists! Lots of my work was over towards Leek (Staffordshire), weird people out in the wilds.

 

[Guest111]

Yes mate we,ve all been there unfortunately, two that spring to mind were both for foreign gentlemen that owned corner shops, 1 asks for a price for a basic alarm 3 pir,s so I quote him say £300 he says a guy down rd will do it for £150, I cant even get kit for that so I ask him what you ringing me for? go get it. second was a cctv gave him price he decided to supply own kit, 2 weeks later system goes down due to operator error,he rings me and I tell him I want a call out fee, he doesnt think he should pay as kit is under guarantee, not with me it aint that was months ago and he still aint got it working, if he had gear supplied by me no prob but he supplied it to save money(cheap rubbish) and can,t understand why I want paying to go back and sort out the problem.oh btw he wants me to take it back for him and explain whats wrong.

 

[Kiers1970]

does any other trade have to walk in the minefield we have to? SO annoying.

 

[UNG]

A number of years ago was promised the electrical work on a property after doing some minor work for a who owns the local hire shop. The original house on the plot was being flattened and a new bigger one being built in it place. 18 months to 2 years later get a call asking me to have a look at a few problems he was having in his house only to find it was the new one so went to have a look, the house was wired by a relative of the roofers and was a bit of a disaster with overloaded dimmers and all sorts of harmonic problems with the electronic dimmers and LV electronic transformers that had been installed. Managed to resolve most of the problems and got paid but he kept on asking me to call manufacturers as more problems appeared and I had to point out if I had done the original install then I would have done but as I had no knowledge of the design or the size and routing of cables then I was not prepared to do it. The guy admitted he wasn't sure the guy who did the original wiring knew what he was doing

 

[needasparks]

Highspark, In our game we have to not only be good sparks but good business men and only have our nose to tell us when things seem wrong.
Yours is obviously twiching so trust it !
We haven't even met the client and you can see the replies.

 

[Kiers1970]

Highspark, In our game we have to not only be good sparks but good business men and only have our nose to tell us when things seem wrong.
Yours is obviously twiching so trust it !
We haven't even met the client and you can see the replies.

Definitely, I've been on jobs, and got the wrong vibes, made the mistake once of not trusting my instincts and got burned. Walked off others after that. Only a couple! (honest)

 

[Amp David]

You’ve made my day! Caravan loft conversion :cheesy:

I’m from Buxton originally.

Did a lot of wedding photography in the area. Father would always dig the wad of notes out of the back pocket, carefully count each note and then stand there with his hand out for his luck money! Once it got known I paid back I was snowed under with work, what they didn’t know was I had two price lists! Lots of my work was over towards Leek (Staffordshire), weird people out in the wilds.

We're a little more refined here, not much more mind!

 

[Welchyboy]

see this kind of thing gets me......its not just about what stuff costs or how much the labour was/is......what we offer is a service......from initial consultation and survay of the job....through the first fix stage...second fix and completion...then handover....all done in an orderly and smooth manner so as to cause minimum disruption to the client and other trades.....what the hells up with some folk??.....

^^^EXACTLY^^^

Why are you even bothering to entertain clients like this??, you are running a business and offering a package!!

thats why you put a price in for the job, to supply and fit, if they dont like the price end of...of course you have to put a mark up on your materials you have to pick them up and come back and sort them if they go wrong

Seriously you dont need customers like this!, walk away, walk away!

you have to earn a wage, cover the materials and gain a profit to grow your business, cutting 30% off your rate is madness, stand your ground man!

let her get polish pete in instead and call you back to put it right afterwards!

 

[Dave 85]

I'm sure everyone else has said the same (not read it all) but wtf are you doing? No profit on materials? 30% off labour? and yet still you're bending to her neurotic whims. I do, for the love of god, hope you're desperate for work because if this is your normal business practice you're not gonna get anywhere in life.

What I'd do is tell her you'll happily break the quote down into individual units and that you are also willing to come and wipe her arse for her, followed by....

"IF YOU EVER CALL ME AGAIN I'LL HAVE YOU DONE FOR HARASSMENT YOU CRAZY PHSYCHO BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Its been one of those days.

 

[Dave 85]

does any other trade have to walk in the minefield we have to? SO annoying.

Not sure...is the army a trade?
Cos I think they have to walk through a bit of a minefield in Afghanistan from time to time. I guess thats annoying for them too.....

 

[highspark]

I'm sure everyone else has said the same (not read it all) but wtf are you doing? No profit on materials? 30% off labour? and yet still you're bending to her neurotic whims. I do, for the love of god, hope you're desperate for work because if this is your normal business practice you're not gonna get anywhere in life.What I'd do is tell her you'll happily break the quote down into individual units and that you are also willing to come and wipe her arse for her, followed by.... "IF YOU EVER CALL ME AGAIN I'LL HAVE YOU DONE FOR HARASSMENT YOU CRAZY PHSYCHO BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"Its been one of those days.

I don't need her work and the 30% was a mark up on labour anyway...this is what I told her.

 

[Dave 85]

To be honest
When I give a quote I always give a per item breakdown but never labour/materials. The per Item breakdown has won me jobs before even though I've not had the lowest price.
I find if you divide labour and materials they will either say "why's the labour so much" or they'll go out and buy a load of cheap crap from screwfix with bits missing which you have to wait for.

I always give a fair price and never negotiate. The only circumastance in which I'd reduce a price is if it was a nice job with plenty of profit and they showed me a better quote from another contractor.

 

[Kiers1970]

Not sure...is the army a trade?
Cos I think they have to walk through a bit of a minefield in Afghanistan from time to time. I guess thats annoying for them too.....

Metophorically.

 

[TaffyDuck]

If I`m asked to quote which is rare these days for me I quote, all in, If they want a breakdown to the last clip I just say no. I tell them what matters is the quality of the job and value for money not me spending hours on a breakdown. If they dont like it thats fine, go somewhere else. The only exception recently was a quote for 10 identical housing association 3 bed terraces which was worth the effort. But hours spent for some little job isnt worth the hassle.
I also nowadays take my laptop to site so the client can see how long the certs take. Did a PIR on a pub/hotel last year and was sat in the bar for a whole day doing PIRs for all 9 boards. Otherwise they think the paperwork just does itself.

 

[parker56]

We got caught last with a big job,we did all the leg work,weeks and weeks of costing then the customer used are quotes and design to show other contracters,got the job in the end by dropping £80,000 of the quote

 

[ishy747]

I gotta say I`m Lucky in these matters, I can always sense who Is going to be a bad payer so for them this is what I do, and it`s a lot better than just walking away.

If the job I am quoting is worth excluding materials £300.00 (for example`s sake) I would price them in the reigion of £450.00. and ask that I want 50% when I get my tools out of the van to make a start. And remainder has to be ready on job completion. (applies on jobs where your`e there for 2 days or more)
when I provide them the quote I do tell them that my Installation Is guranteed to be of quality and safety as I`m a proper sparky and have 20+ years experience and also certified and you get what you pay for.

A) They would turn around and say your expensive and not get you to do the work..... (which I didn`t want to do it anyway).

B) If they go ahead with it, you have made a better mark up and can afford to do a discount on job completion entirely your own choice.

This method has worked for me and with God`s grace I don`t come across these situations that often.
I also have short print at the bottom of my quotes as follows.
Quotation prepared by: ____________________________________________________________________________________
This is a quotation on the goods named, subject to the conditions that all goods remain the property of Horizons Contracts until paid in full. To accept this quotation, sign here and return:

 

[mackers]

I gotta say I`m Lucky in these matters, I can always sense who Is going to be a bad payer so for them this is what I do, and it`s a lot better than just walking away.

If the job I am quoting is worth excluding materials £300.00 (for example`s sake) I would price them in the reigion of £450.00. and ask that I want 50% when I get my tools out of the van to make a start. And remainder has to be ready on job completion. (applies on jobs where your`e there for 2 days or more)
when I provide them the quote I do tell them that my Installation Is guranteed to be of quality and safety as I`m a proper sparky and have 20+ years experience and also certified and you get what you pay for.

A) They would turn around and say your expensive and not get you to do the work..... (which I didn`t want to do it anyway).

B) If they go ahead with it, you have made a better mark up and can afford to do a discount on job completion entirely your own choice.

This method has worked for me and with God`s grace I don`t come across these situations that often.
I also have short print at the bottom of my quotes as follows.
Quotation prepared by: ____________________________________________________________________________________
This is a quotation on the goods named, subject to the conditions that all goods remain the property of Horizons Contracts until paid in full. To accept this quotation, sign here and return:

what happens if materials get nicked off site before your paid ?lol

 

[Vegelen]

surely value for money`s the order of the day here.....

There are many unscrupulous tradesman out there trying it on with the customer ("Once bitten twice shy!"), as well as many customers trying it on with tradesman.

People are ceasing to trust one another, in an ever increasing "dog eat dog world".

Customers also watch cowboy builder programs which recommend getting detailed quotes for work to protect themselves from dodgy trades.
People are asking for detailed quotes because they are ceasing to have trust in people they employ and are also looking for value in a world where many people are heavily indebted.

Lots of tradesman benefitted from an inflated market influenced by borrowed money.
Now the market has gone into reverse.
Lots of tradesman aren't getting enough work, supply is outstripping demand, customers are seeking value.

 

[D80]

A detailed quote is very different to an itemised quote though if you ask me. A clear and concise detailed quote should have all the works detailed that the customer requires - so no extras unless requested. It should leave customer in no doubt of the cost and the works.

Itemised is a bit excessive if you ask me, would make me feel that if they can get some items cheaper they will supply them and then the problems are ahead.

 

[cook1e]

been asked many times, my prices include me my materials my experience and expertise, they are buying a package ! do they ask tesco what they pay for a tin of beans ?

martin

 

[Vegelen]

Trust is breaking down in society.
People are becoming more unscrupulous.
They watch their peers misbehave and follow suit.
As life gets quicker, people are becoming more pneurotic and less tolerant.
People cease to have the time to listen anymore, everyones in a rush, chasing money.
This customer sounds like she's pneurotic, penny pinching or over cautious.
Neither of us know what life events influenced her to be that way.
If the electrician doesn't like her terms its simple, walk away.

 

[Dave 85]

I didn't realise so many people were against showing unit costs..
My quote looks like this
Kitchen
4 D/S-£200
4 Down lights-£200
Bathroom
4 Downlights £200
etc etc
I do this to save any arguments when variations happen. Im not out to punish my clients for changing their minds, I pride myself on having a very freindly relationship with all clients which generally means once I've done one job for them, most wouldn't consider looking for anyone else.
Note. I have NEVER had to argue with a client about money on invoicing.


As I've said already, I dont breakdown labour/materials although occasionally I'll give unit prices for the option of chrome front plates so

Install Double socket-£50 (white plate included)

Supply Polished chrome double socket (optional)-£15

 

[D80]

I have no issue with that Dave 85.

I took it more as being broken down as per material item, such as:

Kitchen:
4 D/S - £5.00
25M 2.5MM T&E - £20
3 Lengths 20MM conduit - £3.60
4 Flush double backboxes - £2.80
etc etc etc

 

[Geordie Spark]

Whenever I was askid if I could do a job cheaper I always said "Yes I can ..... but I'd rather stay in business !!"

 

[Guitarist]

I once asked a client to wait while I found my registered charity number. Then put my hand to my head and said "oh wait, I'm NOT a charity". That made them smile.

 

[Mattty]

When people try to haggle I usually tell them that while I like my job. It is how I make my living and not a hobby.

 

[Welchyboy]

To be honest
When I give a quote I always give a per item breakdown but never labour/materials. The per Item breakdown has won me jobs before even though I've not had the lowest price.
I find if you divide labour and materials they will either say "why's the labour so much" or they'll go out and buy a load of cheap crap from screwfix with bits missing which you have to wait for.

I always give a fair price and never negotiate. The only circumastance in which I'd reduce a price is if it was a nice job with plenty of profit and they showed me a better quote from another contractor.

I often do this too, to supply and fit, break down the price per job, to be honest i think you can charge more this way than just having one big figure at the bottom of your quote!