Pig feeder system

Jimmyb · Mar 9, 2015

Hello after abit of advice on adding a automatic start to my granddads pig feeding system,
when I installed it 8 years ago it was wired with a sensor on last feeder so when it was full it turned off and need start button pressing on the night.
has any one put a auto start system in ? do I need to add a magic eye on one of the feeder pipe if so wots the best way of wiring it now.

any suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated

Many thanks

Knobhead · Mar 9, 2015

I have but it was for coal and many years ago.

Answer a quick question, what sort of conveyor feeds the bins?

JD6400 · Mar 9, 2015

Hi Jimmyb , what type of sensor have you already got ( proximity or paddle ) , and is it just a single auger system or is there more than one linked in tandem ?

Jimmyb · Mar 10, 2015

Tony said:
I have but it was for coal and many years ago.

Answer a quick question, what sort of conveyor feeds the bins?

a single auger system (worm)

Jimmyb · Mar 10, 2015

JD6400 said:
Hi Jimmyb , what type of sensor have you already got ( proximity or paddle ) , and is it just a single auger system or is there more than one linked in tandem ?

its a paddle sensor and it a worm single auger system

stevey1983 · Mar 10, 2015

Depends on a lot really, is there only one motor? 3phase? Whats controlling it at the moment? Do you want it to autostart all the time or at set times? Can be simply done with time clock, motor starter with overload and paddle switch.

Jimmyb · Mar 10, 2015

one sigle phase motor, DOL starter at the minute
He wants autostart all the time

Darkwood · Mar 10, 2015

Just be careful here as the system is now it relies on a deliberate action to start it so it is supposedly under the control of a person, you cannot simply make something auto-start without ensuring there is no inherent dangers in doing so. A risk assessment is the first step to ensure automating it cannot endanger anyone be it you, a farmhand or maintenance guy.. you may need to fit guarding with limit switches through a safety relay system to ensure no-one can get their hand on the pig menu if the screw suddenly fired up.
The minute you alter it then all responsibility stays on your shoulders if anyone is ever injured or worse.

Sorry to be the merchant of doom here but I know of many instances of people been injured and killed after bodgit alterations.

The concept of doing this maybe simple but the implementation to ensure it is safe can be costly.

stevey1983 · Mar 11, 2015

This is the type of setup normally with no accessible parts to the augers moving parts

[ElectriciansForums.net] Pig feeder system

Jimmyb · Mar 12, 2015

that's exactly how it is wired now

telectrix · Mar 12, 2015

this any help. :49:

t-s · Mar 13, 2015

just link out the N/O contact or the start button and make sure you have an isolator fitted and a sticker saying something along the lines of "warning auger may start without warning". this is assuming that you have it wired correctly as it is and your start button doesn't bypass the flap switch.

t-s · Mar 13, 2015

i say this because i have wired 100s of pig feeders and i have seen people wire them in a way where the start button if held will still run the motor if the flap switch of probe is covered, then mr farmer wedges a bit of wood on the start button and burns out the motor or snaps the auger

Silly Sausage · Mar 13, 2015

telectrix said:
this any help. :49:

View attachment 28345

Cannibalism?

Darkwood · Mar 13, 2015

t-s said:
just link out the N/O contact or the start button and make sure you have an isolator fitted and a sticker saying something along the lines of "warning auger may start without warning". this is assuming that you have it wired correctly as it is and your start button doesn't bypass the flap switch.

So your giving this advice to the OP without any detailed knowledge of his particular set-up!... what works for one system can be highly dangerous for another hence the cautious advice I gave him, out of interest what experience of control systems and the Low Voltage directive and other associated regulations that may limit your options on such a request do you have... I only ask because of the possible dangerous advice you give... PS if the start button would over-ride the paddle then the control system is incorrectly wired be it by adaption by others or manufacturing issues, stop commands should hold priority on start commands so if you had a Stop command active the Start option wouldn't work until the stop command was cleared... if you are altering any controls that are found to do this (Unless by special design) then you are required to rectify the issue as part of your alteration, addition etc...

t-s · Mar 13, 2015

darkwood said:
So your giving this advice to the OP without any detailed knowledge of his particular set-up!... what works for one system can be highly dangerous for another hence the cautious advice I gave him, out of interest what experience of control systems and the Low Voltage directive and other associated regulations that may limit your options on such a request do you have... I only ask because of the possible dangerous advice you give... PS if the start button would over-ride the paddle then the control system is incorrectly wired be it by adaption by others or manufacturing issues, stop commands should hold priority on start commands so if you had a Stop command active the Start option wouldn't work until the stop command was cleared... if you are altering any controls that are found to do this (Unless by special design) then you are required to rectify the issue as part of your alteration, addition etc...

I have a lot of experience in this area, I am only giving advice based on the info I have. I'm not sure why you are attacking me for other people's mistakes that I have rectified??? All I said was I have seen on numerous occasions people connect a start button in parallel WRONGLY!!!! with a limit or a stop. I have been building panels and attending breakdowns on all kinds of machinery for years for the likes of DuPont and Glaxo so I think I know how start and stops work..... But if wer speaking strictly maybe if the op has to ask he is not competent to carry out such a job. He asked how to make his system work automatically and I told him. What I said would make it run constant unless stopped by the flap switch. I have wired many livestock feeders in this way, in order for someone to sustain an injury they would have to remove an inspection panel and stick their hands in (ignoring the warning sign saying auger starts automatically blah blah) anyone who does not know to isolate for mechanical maintenance is not competent. Correct me if I'm wrong

ps. No offence to the op I realise you only wanted a simple answer which is what I thought I had given previously

TJ Anderson · Mar 13, 2015

t-s said:
I have a lot of experience in this area, I am only giving advice based on the info I have. I'm not sure why you are attacking me for other people's mistakes that I have rectified??? All I said was I have seen on numerous occasions people connect a start button in parallel WRONGLY!!!! with a limit or a stop. I have been building panels and attending breakdowns on all kinds of machinery for years for the likes of DuPont and Glaxo so I think I know how start and stops work..... But if wer speaking strictly maybe if the op has to ask he is not competent to carry out such a job. He asked how to make his system work automatically and I told him. What I said would make it run constant unless stopped by the flap switch. I have wired many livestock feeders in this way, in order for someone to sustain an injury they would have to remove an inspection panel and stick their hands in (ignoring the warning sign saying auger starts automatically blah blah) anyone who does not know to isolate for mechanical maintenance is not competent. Correct me if I'm wrong

ps. No offence to the op I realise you only wanted a simple answer which is what I thought I had given previously

tut, you know you should have performed a full free onsite visual inspection before offering advice to someone on here lol

t-s · Mar 13, 2015

TJ Anderson said:
tut, you know you should have performed a full free onsite visual inspection before offering advice to someone on here lol

I have my legal team on the case writing up contracts and liability waivers. I am on sorting a risk assessment and permit to work then I will photocopy my qualifications and gather references

t-s · Mar 13, 2015

Bet you wish you'd never asked Jimmy haha

TJ Anderson · Mar 13, 2015

t-s said:
I have my legal team on the case writing up contracts and liability waivers. I am on sorting a risk assessment and permit to work then I will photocopy my qualifications and gather references

That should do for a start, Mods will then do police background and family checks followed by a gunpoint interrogation of BS7671. You should then be "good to go" on advising how to wire a shed and go on from there basically.

Darkwood · Mar 13, 2015

Im not attacking you par' ce ... it was just you offered advice without mentioning possible limitations on doing what the OP requests.

If the Hopper is meshed out at the base and access to any moving parts is not possible without using drivers, spanners etc then automating this unit shouldn't be an issue, if any panel is designed for inspection and access for say a blockage and is expected to be accessed on occasion then the controls will need to be upgraded to incorporate some form of limit switch through a safety relay set-up if not already incorporated, to ensure it cannot auto-start while been unblocked, this task of clearing blockages could be performed by an unskilled person so regardless of signs and lock offs it is still required.

This is all I meant - yes give a possible solution by all means but ensure you remind the OP your solution can only be used if his feeder is as above or has similar measures if required.

'( in order for someone to sustain an injury they would have to remove an inspection panel and stick their hands in (ignoring the warning sign saying auger starts automatically blah blah) anyone who does not know to isolate for mechanical maintenance is not competent. Correct me if I'm wrong)'

This is not strictly true hence I said a risk assessment is essential which will include the likely knowledge level of operators, the likelyhood of inspection panel been opened etc ....(Note the name 'Inspection panel', so assume its likely if for blokages)

So autostart as simple as it is to incorporate may require extra safety measures to comply and be safe.

As long as the OP is given this advice along with the possible solution then (s)he has all the info required to make an informed decision on what to do.... you even expressed the OP isn't probably competent by asking the question yet you didn't give the safety aspect of your advice...

Please don't take offense it was just a query as to your background and not trying to trip you up in anyway... not really seen your posts often and tend to know the regular set on here who are into panel building.

t-s · Mar 13, 2015

darkwood said:
Im not attacking you par' ce ... it was just you offered advice without mentioning possible limitations on doing what the OP requests.

If the Hopper is meshed out at the base and access to any moving parts is not possible without using drivers, spanners etc then automating this unit shouldn't be an issue, if any panel is designed for inspection and access for say a blockage and is expected to be accessed on occasion then the controls will need to be upgraded to incorporate some form of limit switch through a safety relay set-up if not already incorporated, to ensure it cannot auto-start while been unblocked, this task of clearing blockages could be performed by an unskilled person so regardless of signs and lock offs it is still required.

This is all I meant - yes give a possible solution by all means but ensure you remind the OP your solution can only be used if his feeder is as above or has similar measures if required.

'( in order for someone to sustain an injury they would have to remove an inspection panel and stick their hands in (ignoring the warning sign saying auger starts automatically blah blah) anyone who does not know to isolate for mechanical maintenance is not competent. Correct me if I'm wrong)'

This is not strictly true hence I said a risk assessment is essential which will include the likely knowledge level of operators, the likelyhood of inspection panel been opened etc ....(Note the name 'Inspection panel', so assume its likely if for blokages)

So autostart as simple as it is to incorporate may require extra safety measures to comply and be safe.

As long as the OP is given this advice along with the possible solution then (s)he has all the info required to make an informed decision on what to do.... you even expressed the OP isn't probably competent by asking the question yet you didn't give the safety aspect of your advice...

Please don't take offense it was just a query as to your background and not trying to trip you up in anyway... not really seen your posts often and tend to know the regular set on here who are into panel building.

Ok mate no hard feelings haha I know my way around feedlines I used to do atleast 1 callout a week on them with my old firm.

Darkwood · Mar 13, 2015

The problem about advising on control systems is this is a forum full of sparkies with little or no knowledge of regulations and safety issues associated with such set-up... so if they ask a question about a machine control system it would be advisable to relay any safety aspects and risks that come with delving into such areas.... had they asked a domestic question and they were qualified then you assume their competence and don't have to reind them electricity kills in every post as a disclaimer...

As I said before, I've seen what happens when Electricians get involved in the Electrical Engineering game and Ive seen people been injured and know of deaths as a result so mock my cautionary attitude (I have tough skin

)but they are not asking how to change a lightswitch here!

PEG · Mar 14, 2015

stevey1983 said:
This is the type of setup normally with no accessible parts to the augers moving parts

Having been involved in agricultural engineering for most of my life,i am sitting out this one,for reasons alluded to by others...i just wanted to say that THIS^ picture of a pig,is one of the best i've ever seen,and i wish the OP well,if only for the little smile it possesses. :icon12:

Knobhead · Mar 14, 2015

t-s said:
just link out the N/O contact or the start button and make sure you have an isolator fitted and a sticker saying something along the lines of "warning auger may start without warning". this is assuming that you have it wired correctly as it is and your start button doesn't bypass the flap switch.

One of the reasons I dropped out of this thread is I knew the dangerous suggestions that would follow.

Inspection ports are a nightmare unless they are physically screened (IE mesh) or interlocked to stop the drive.

“Just short out the start button” is one of the most stupid and dangerous bits of advice I’ve ever come across on this forum. No consideration to the need for E-Stops delatching or anything else for that matter.

Pig feeder system

Jimmyb

Knobhead

JD6400

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Jimmyb

Jimmyb

stevey1983

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Jimmyb

Darkwood

stevey1983

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Jimmyb

telectrix

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t-s

t-s

Silly Sausage

Darkwood

t-s

TJ Anderson

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t-s

t-s

TJ Anderson

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Darkwood

t-s

Darkwood

PEG

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Knobhead

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