Outdoor lighting - no waterproof junction boxes

Richard Daniels · Aug 29, 2017

Hi, could someone please let me know whether the attached pictures is safe for step lighting?

From what I can see, the contractor has cut away the insulation from the cabling that was suplied by the manufacturer and used standard junction boxes wrapped with electrical tape.

This doesn't feel sufficient to me so just wanted some more advice.

Thanks in advance

[ElectriciansForums.net] Outdoor lighting - no waterproof junction boxes

Flanders · Aug 30, 2017

It not correct , should have used one of these , unless of course there is 3 cables at each point , ,more thought should of gone into the design of the install if that's the case

IP68 Waterproof 3 Pole Plug and Socket Cable Connector 32A 450Vac - http://sinolec.co.uk/en/rewirable-socket-plugs/1211474--ip68-waterproof-3-pole-plug-and-socket-cable-connector-32a-450vac.html?utm_source=GoogleShopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ExportPrestashop&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpMbvrOb-1QIVjpTtCh3QFALPEAQYASABEgLVcPD_BwE

Richard Daniels · Aug 30, 2017

Midwest said:
A hole in a wall is not really a joint box. The gel & brick will eventually part company. What's on the other side of that taped up connector? Details of luminaire?

Knightsbridge LEDM06 - link below.

0.6W LED Mini Ground Light White with 3 Interchangeable Heads | City Electrical Factors - http://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/3871327-0-6w-led-mini-ground-light-white-c-w-3-interchangable-heads

No transformer, fed straight from mains.

Otherside of the junction box is the cable coming from the brickwork which is now not accessible.

DPG · Aug 30, 2017

Agree with above - stick a waterproof plug and socket coupler on. Damp is bound to get into those joints at some point.

Midwest · Aug 30, 2017

Think you would struggle, leaving one of those in that brick wall. I sense this job needs a bit of a revaluation.

Midwest · Aug 30, 2017

Richard Daniels said:
Knightsbridge LEDM06 - link below.

0.6W LED Mini Ground Light White with 3 Interchangeable Heads | City Electrical Factors - http://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/3871327-0-6w-led-mini-ground-light-white-c-w-3-interchangable-heads

No transformer, fed straight from mains.

Otherside of the junction box is the cable coming from the brickwork which is now not accessible.

Are your sure that is the exact fitting? The manufacturers data sheet suggests it must be earthed, although it confuses things by saying its Class III and 230V?

The luminaire in your picture suggests its double insulated Class II and doesn't require earthing, your picture suggests the lead doesn't have an earth wire. This needs clarification?

Richard Daniels · Aug 30, 2017

Midwest said:
Are your sure that is the exact fitting? The manufacturers data sheet suggests it must be earthed, although it confuses things by saying its Class III and 230V?

The luminaire in your picture suggests its double insulated Class II and doesn't require earthing, your picture suggests the lead doesn't have an earth wire. This needs clarification?

That is a bit odd but it is the correct fitting. The installation sheet (attached) mentions that is does not need to be earthed so one of them is wrong.

Given I have not paid and I don't want the contractors messing around with the steps anymore what are my options?

Can I refuse to pay given its a workaround that will not stand the test if time?

DPG · Aug 30, 2017

I certainly wouldn't pay for a choc-block wrapped up in tape in an outdoors environment. Needs a waterproof joint or a waterproof plug/socket.

The data sheet says class II - no earth needed.

Midwest · Aug 30, 2017

As to how to progress, I would get the installer back and say your not happy with the work. How you're (or they are) going to improve things might be problematic. Could you post a picture that shows the install a bit clearer?

Vitesse · Aug 30, 2017

I had a job a couple of months ago where I had to tidy up a mess left behind by a previous 'electrician'. He had installed some step lights in a simple manner and needless to say they stopped working after a few months. The holes were full of mud and insects, as on the other end of the hole the cable entry point was underneath a load of soil in a flower bed.

I used Wiska Shell Boxes to terminate the connections inside the hole. They are IPX8 rated so nothing can get inside them.

MJB112 - WISKA - make power smile Installation material - https://www.wiska.co.uk/products/pde/MJB112/mjb112.html

Midwest · Aug 30, 2017

Vitesse said:
I had a job a couple of months ago where I had to tidy up a mess left behind by a previous 'electrician'. He had installed some step lights in a simple manner and needless to say they stopped working after a few months. The holes were full of mud and insects, as on the other end of the hole the cable entry point was underneath a load of soil in a flower bed.

I used Wiska Shell Boxes to terminate the connections inside the hole. They are IPX8 rated so nothing can get inside them.

MJB112 - WISKA - make power smile Installation material - https://www.wiska.co.uk/products/pde/MJB112/mjb112.html

Good shout, but what are their dimensions? Just thinking of OP 'holes'.

Vitesse · Aug 30, 2017

I can't find any dimensions on them on line but they are pretty small as effectively they only have two Wago clamp type connectors inside. I haven't got any left to measure them either, as they are not cheap about a fiver each but they are a really good bit of kit.

You could use two singles with just a single Wago connector in each, so one for each wire if a two way won't fit.

Midwest · Aug 30, 2017

Not sure if there's any slack in the supply cable.

Richard Daniels · Aug 30, 2017

Thanks all, really appreciate the advice.

Hole is 3cm wide and 7cm deep.

DPG · Aug 30, 2017

Good point, is there any slack? Poor show if not. Ought to leave a bit.

late · Aug 30, 2017

I think the light is the knightsbridge LEDM06 which comes with a 2mtr 0.75mm cable, they are rated IP65 but i suspect that is only valid when the outer sheath is sealed to an IP65 enclosure so that no water can ingress down the sheath?

The light is now bin fodder as the cable is most likely too short to make a suitable seal between an IP65 enclosure and the outer sheath of the cable, based on the very poor standard of work i would also suspect that the cable feeding the lights from your house isnt suitable protected in the ground either.

Outdoor lighting - no waterproof junction boxes

Richard Daniels

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Flanders

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Richard Daniels

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DPG

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Midwest

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Midwest

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Richard Daniels

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DPG

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Midwest

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Vitesse

Midwest

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Vitesse

Midwest

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Richard Daniels

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DPG

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late

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