Could a relay switch be causing the havoc in my home?

Tardigrade · Apr 25, 2018

Hi guys,

Don't know if I picked the wrong builder, products, am desperately unlucky or its the relay switch...all help much appreciated!

Background facts
• Back to bricks refurb of duplex flat, all new wiring etc.
• Upstairs en suite utilises same in line fan as existing bathroom. Builder therefore put in a metal box in my airing cupboard he referred to as a relay switch, with the function of "if either bathroom's lights are on, turn fan on".
• I have a ton of ceiling lights linked to dimmer switches as I'm visually impaired.
• I had cable runs installed for virgin and tv aerial under the flooring

Symptoms
• My 2gbit powerline adapters are providing 60mbit from downstairs to upstairs, and 100mbit downstairs only. Swapping the adapters around, I agree with TP Link technical support that this is not a faulty set of adapters but rather there must be "electrical interference" in my house. What I don't know if it is simply "normal" to accept the "distance" of going upstairs leads to this loss of 95% performance typically; or if this is a sign of terrible wiring; or if it is the relay switch dominating upstairs.

• Around 5 of my 14 V-Pro dimmer switches have failed. Some in days, one took a month. Many but not all failures upstairs (ie fairly close to relay switch, which is central placement).

• Around 15 of 30 odd dimmable lights from LEDHut have failed. I think this one is more likely to be product quality - amazonbasics replacements seem to be holding up. Also, the best survivors are actually closest to the switch.

• Engineers have determined both the virgin cable and tv aerial cable are suffering from a ton of "noise". They attributed this to damaged cables in the under floor area- they didn't know of the existence of the switch. There are two virgin cables - the working one without noise (tv) doesn't get as close to the relay as the "broken" one (broadband).

• I'm about to get Virgin to drill another hole in my house, and ruin the decorating somewhat, to run another cable to replace the "broken" one. My fear now is they'll do all that work only to find the cables are "still broken" - and that the issue is actually one of noise caused by the relay switch.

Thoughts?!

Thanks!

Midwest · Apr 25, 2018

Midwest said:
This sounds on the face of it quite an annoying & perhaps complicated situation. Some dimmer switch manufacturers for example make lots of allegations that some dimmer switches can cause all sorts of problems.

I myself had issues using powerline adaptors, causing loss of internet connection.

Think you first need to highlight the symptoms of your problems, before spending money on services or products, in a systematic way.

Still think my post beat all you lot first

shaun1 · Apr 25, 2018

As others have said, the relay seems unlikely to be the problem, but it would be very easy to remove it and see if anything improves.

Power line adapters work best on the same circuit, and even then you are unlikely to get the full speed. Have you tried them on sockets in the same room.

TV arial and particullaly the virgin cables need to be properly terminated to function well. If they are properly terminated they should reject a lot of interference so I would suspect some poor terminations/splitting under the floor somewhere.

Dimming mains LED bulbs is often problematic, so as others have said it's best to stick to combinations of bulbs and dimmers that have been recomended by manufacturers or by someone with experience of fitting many.

shaun1 · Apr 25, 2018

Thinking about it, the builder/his electrician should really have recomended installing cat 5 cable to the points you need it when carrying out the rest of the work.

Before letting virgin media loose with the drill it may be worth getting someone to investigate the coax cables, the vm instalalers may well have stuck a tester on the end, saw a bad signal and condemmed it. Did they look at the terminations of the cable/check it was the correct spec?

Tardigrade · Apr 25, 2018

Possibly-unfairly-accused-relay attached.

You guys inspired me to up the testing. My findings and responses to your thoughts:
1) Turning off all lights and bathroom fans (does this necessarily turn of the relay though?) has zero effect on powerline.
2) Oh my god. Powerline is extremely sensitive to socket placement. The 60mbit was by fluke the best plug to plug match. On the same double plug, one gives 60mbit the other doesn't function at all. I have a ton of sockets and tried about 10 permutations and nothing beat 60 mbit. Some 40, many, total duds. What does this suggest?
3) An independent FM aerial guy did establish that all the aerials had been very badly "attached" to the socket. He fixed this, leading to massive improvement, but still said there was a ton of noise and its still pretty rubbish signal. So he thought cables were damaged. FM and Virgin in the same trench, although there is more of the former round the house than the latter.

Thanks!

[ElectriciansForums.net] Could a relay switch be causing the havoc in my home?

Tardigrade · Apr 25, 2018

Oh sorry for some reason can't upload image

Octopus · Apr 25, 2018

Using power line is absolutely no substitute for proper cat5 or cat6 wiring ...... anyone who says otherwise is not speaking from a point of experience.

123 · Apr 25, 2018

Powerline adaptors are an after thought at best.

LED Hut products are garbage, better with good branded LED products for downlights either can and lamp or dedicated unit. Chances are it's the LED Hut lamps failing that have killed the dimmers.

shaun1 · Apr 25, 2018

If your ariel guy has confirmed bad terminations at the socket, then whoever installed it didnt know what they are doing and there are probably other bad joints that werent uncovered or the cable was damaged during instalation. I would be looking to get the builder back to repair them and make good at his expense.

Re the powerline adaptors, could you try them at a friend/family members house to see how they perform?

The Ghost · Apr 25, 2018

First I am concerned 50% of lamps have gone and 30% of dimmers have failed. When you say "a ton of lights" how many are we talking about. You say 14, is that on one circuit? How many lights do you have in all? I also wonder if it is possible to post the certificate you received for the wiring, there are two particular pages the schedule of circuits and the test results for those circuits which may help. There can be problems with inrush current on a lot of LED lights that can cause failure of switching. Are the switches rated for the loads they are controlling would be the question.
Do you have the V2 powerline adaptors? And the ethernet port the signal is going in to on your computer is it 10/100? as you may be able to upgrade the port on your computer to 1Gbit??? It is just that I was thinking that if you have a 1oo mbps port trying to take in a 200 mbps signal that wont really work too well. And I have read of a PS1 on standby causing enough noise to degrade signals. Maybe you have other things plugged into the same circuit that are causing the noise. A very rudimentary filter would be to use a small extension lead for such equipment. But of course you could try unplugging other equipment to see if that improves signal.

Octopus · Apr 25, 2018

I've read reports that suggest plugged in power chargers for phones etc can affect signals too!

Need more answers from the op

123 · Apr 26, 2018

Why have you got an EICR for a new installation?

static zap · Apr 26, 2018

5G Wifi , has a short range , Cat 5 can be quite chewed up under carpets and still be so much better - than power line !
(My sons wired Xbox is the envy of his mates )
Let someone have a look for best place for virgin router , and a cat 5 via
a decoration friendly route.
( not like the days of BT , and no mobiles - washing line hanging along stairs, over door frames all over the house ! )

shaun1 · Apr 26, 2018

As 123 has said, that is a condition report for an existing instalation. A new instalation requires an electrical instalation certificate. It is also required by law to notify building control for such works. It appears here that someone unqualified to provide these documents has carried out the work, and got an electrician in to test. This electrician would be unable to issue an electrical instalation certificate for work they didnt do, so will have provided this cert (which does not cover as many tests as are required for a new instalation, and cable in the fabric of the building cannot be inspected)

I imadgine a lot of money changed hands here and it certainly appears from afar that the electrical instalation has not been carried out to the proper standard or tested and inspected in the way it should have been. If the ariel terminations are anything to go by, there could be all sorts of problems. (Obviously these are all assumptions from the information given so far)

With regards to the powerline adaptors, yoi are unlikely to ever get good performance between upstairs and downstairs as they are connected to different RCDs.

Tardigrade · Apr 26, 2018

Thanks all - looks like its best to get someone in at some stage when I can afford. The RCD bit in last post explains what I'm seeing well. Frustrating!

Octopus · Apr 26, 2018

Murdoch said:
Who specified the downlights and dimmers?

Did the spark who tested and certificated - did he do the installation work?

??????

And where has the post gone with the EICR attached?

I don't think we are being told the whole story ...

Could a relay switch be causing the havoc in my home?

Tardigrade

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Midwest

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shaun1

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shaun1

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Tardigrade

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Tardigrade

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Octopus

123

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shaun1

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The Ghost

Octopus

123

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static zap

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shaun1

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Tardigrade

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Octopus

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