Become an Electrician in 18 days!

pirate · Aug 29, 2018

Wonky shelves...carpenter could have done better, nobody dies
Wonky plumbing, wetpants could have done better, nobody dies
Wonky gas fitter...somebody may die
Wonky electrician...somebody probably will die,especially as electrical work is held up to be a DIY thing
Wonky surgeon...somebody might die, but it's much harder to prove blame...but they do get paid quite well
Wonky footballer...very unlikely anybody will die, many will spend money on them, far too much money to watch their team play, more than they can/should really afford, and yet while the footballer earns a million times more than any of the above, people will pay their wages because that's how the world works...while neglecting the safety of their families and homes, people lavish money on players who contribute very little, and yet think they are the dogs' -------s, the mutts' nuts, the canines' cojones...

As ever, those who add real value are valued least...
Rant over!

Baddegg · Aug 29, 2018

pirate said:
Hmmm...I don't relish the idea of turning up and showing what I've got...
People laugh enough at me as it is, without showing them that!

That’ll be the pointy hat and wooden leg Pete...

pirate · Aug 29, 2018

The wooden leg is a problem, for sure...
The hook is more so...
but I don't wear a pointy hat these days as a bandana is way more cool!

Baddegg · Aug 29, 2018

Hi I’m an 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag domestic installer amongst other trades,after many years in the building trade I’ve met some very clever time served sparks but I’ve also met some time served sparks who work for larger companies and are nothing more than installers on an industrial and or commercial level, they havnt a clue about calcs of any kind but are still “qualified sparks” they wouldn’t have a clue how to design and install on a domestic level and keep within the regs,I was also fortunate to do my courses with a man who hit 100% on every C&G exam we took (yes even the closed book ones!) but he is still a 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag it’s seems a bit unfair to tar all with the same brush.

MDJ · Aug 30, 2018

Thor said:
So seeing post ads on local community groups on Facebook advertising Kitchen and bathroom refute minor electrical work done.

This really gets my back up and think the system is a complete joke. They may have served a electeical apprentiship for 4years like most of us, but probably just done a part p course for 2 weeks and become 'qualified'. How do they have knowledge and experience in 2 weeks ? Is there a register that only people with apprentiships can go on ? I'm thinking of just getting a gold card for the sake of showing customers.

Gggrrrrr

[ElectriciansForums.net] Become an Electrician in 18 days!

MDJ · Aug 30, 2018

Thor said:
just use the cheapest quote. .

Next Time I want to buy a car or a carpet then I will ask the seller to add 50% on to make me feel better lol

Pete999 · Aug 30, 2018

Baddegg said:
Hi I’m an 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag domestic installer amongst other trades,after many years in the building trade I’ve met some very clever time served sparks but I’ve also met some time served sparks who work for larger companies and are nothing more than installers on an industrial and or commercial level, they havnt a clue about calcs of any kind but are still “qualified sparks” they wouldn’t have a clue how to design and install on a domestic level and keep within the regs,I was also fortunate to do my courses with a man who hit 100% on every C&G exam we took (yes even the closed book ones!) but he is still a 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag it’s seems a bit unfair to tar all with the same brush.

Yes you are right Mate, there will always be exceptional people who have taken the short route to becoming an electrician, I have said this on many occasions during my rants on this subject, we have some of these people as Forum members.

Pete999 · Aug 30, 2018

Baddegg said:
Hi I’m an 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag domestic installer amongst other trades,after many years in the building trade I’ve met some very clever time served sparks but I’ve also met some time served sparks who work for larger companies and are nothing more than installers on an industrial and or commercial level, they havnt a clue about calcs of any kind but are still “qualified sparks” they wouldn’t have a clue how to design and install on a domestic level and keep within the regs,I was also fortunate to do my courses with a man who hit 100% on every C&G exam we took (yes even the closed book ones!) but he is still a 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag it’s seems a bit unfair to tar all with the same brush.

Yes you are right Mate, there will always be exceptional people who have taken the short route to becoming an electrician, I have said this on many occasions during my rants on this subject, we have some of these people as Forum members.

Des 56 · Aug 30, 2018

Baddegg said:
Hi I’m an 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag domestic installer amongst other trades,after many years in the building trade I’ve met some very clever time served sparks but I’ve also met some time served sparks who work for larger companies and are nothing more than installers on an industrial and or commercial level, they havnt a clue about calcs of any kind but are still “qualified sparks” they wouldn’t have a clue how to design and install on a domestic level and keep within the regs,I was also fortunate to do my courses with a man who hit 100% on every C&G exam we took (yes even the closed book ones!) but he is still a 18 day/Electrical Trainee/boil in the bag it’s seems a bit unfair to tar all with the same brush.

So after all of 18 days training and some time in the building industry,you feel confident to assess the competence technical ability and general competence of time served electricians

Baddegg · Aug 30, 2018

Des 56 said:
So after all of 18 days training and some time in the building industry,you feel confident to assess the competence technical ability and general competence of time served electricians

Thought that was the way of the forum des? Assessing peoples skill level purely on what a bit of paper says is commonplace on here isn’t it?

Baddegg · Aug 30, 2018

just to clarify I’m not assessing competency of all electricians,just the ones I’ve met whilst training for the best part of 2 years, and asked questions of,to judge a whole group of people would be wrong wouldn’t it? Bit like saying all short course electricians (sorry domestic installers) are useless........oh hang on......Or conversely all time served electricians know everything? We both know neither statement is true

Des 56 · Aug 30, 2018

just to clarify I’m not assessing competency of all electricians,just the ones I’ve met whilst training for the best part of 2 years,

Short course training has been to the detriment of the overall standard of what constituted being an electrician

Becoming an electrician these days is much much easier than what was typical years ago
The trade has been sectioned into various little sectors,these sector are filled by "electricians" who usually have no idea about the other skills that were expected of them,we have become a bit part trade

An example of that is the likes of yourself after a short training course, a few weeks in a class room and just 2 years on site learning a trade that at one time took 4 - 5 years of intense training, it also took quite a few years after that gaining experience in a all round capacity
For that person then to make judgement on other longer trained electricians!
The probability being, that person does not comprehend what it "actually"requires to operate in anything other than the very basic sector of the trade that is domestic installation

Baddegg · Aug 30, 2018

Des I’m not an electrician,never claimed to be, that doesn’t mean I can’t make judgments on other people, it’s the human condition I’m afraid and also a hard win right for our ansestors, the world is changing everything is instant these days, I think it’s also fair to assume what it takes a 16-19 yr old to do in 4/5 years an adult could reasonably do in 2/3? an adult in most cases will take in and retain knowledge. The all round capacity you refer to is what I’m doing now,this forum being one of the places I strive to constantly improve my knowledge in the domestic sector, the more I learn the more I learn to sort the wheat from the chaff, your opinions of me and many others on here like me will only drive me on.
Please don’t make assumptions that because I spent my apprenticeship butchering wood it doesn’t mean I can’t learn another trade at a different point in my lifeI am doing it as we speak, the internet is a great tool for that sort of thing,and any adversity or condemnation from people on here will not stop me I assure you,so judge away my friend call me names and pidgin hole me I’ll be fine x
I can also assure you I didn’t join this forum to antagonise or annoy anyone I just want to expand my knowledge.

Des 56 · Aug 30, 2018

You disagreed when I stated that any decent tradesman can carry out domestic electrics if he is shown what is required
"I" did not condemn the short course trained in that situation you did by disagreeing

You took it upon yourself to make judgement of others who have had longer training than yourself
I am( probably unjustly)using "your criteria" to judge"you" in comparison to what I understand should be the minimum for competence

Baddegg · Aug 30, 2018

Des I disagreed that any decent tradesman can carry out domestic works on the basis that I have seen some extremely good builders attempt electrical installation and be happy that all works but I myself have learnt that it’s not just about everything working,so much more to it....just to reiterate my point was that longer training does not always produce better tradesmen any more than short courses alwasys produce poor tradesmen, I’m sure you’ve met many time served sparks who have left you shaking your head?
Admittedly they are in the minority and I would like to add that I have learnt more from picking the brains of any time served spark good enough to put up with my questions than I have from any other source.
I think I’ll refrain from just disagreeing in future and offer an explanation of why, I can understand your point there and I apologise for that.
As before des I didn’t come on here to wind people up I just want to be the best and safest I can.

pirate · Aug 31, 2018

Because I used to move in such circles, I know a fair number of "professionals" in many spheres..accountants, dentists, doctors, lawyers...they all had to get university degrees, taking from 3 to 7 years of study.
On graduating, most of them knew very little...all they had achieved was the right to continue their education within their chosen field.
There were no "unqualified" doctors...but I would rather be seen by a GP with 40 years experience than a newbie...
However, there comes a time when you have to accept the transition from "newly qualified" to "competent"...and from "experienced" to "highly experienced"...and you also have to accept that some "newbies" have good stuff to bring to the table by way of using innovation to improve the working day and the outcome for patients/clients/customers, by not being bound by tradition.
A mechanic may fix your brakes...an experienced mechanic may do the same job...the result should be the same, but sometimes it isn't, sadly. What matters is doing the right job, the safe job, the "perfect" job...friends, there will always be different opinions on here about such matters, but frankly there is no one solution...so don't let differing views turn into vitriol...just accept that everyone has an experience to support their cause, and try to be constructive, not dismissive.
Story-time:
I use a local tyre dealer (national brand) for my tyres, MOTs, servicing, etc. I have watched these two guys in one depot many times and I like their style. The old guy, (with a beard that would automatically qualify him for membership of ZZTop) and the "wee boy" who needs his mum to pack his lunch...they spar constantly, with banter that would make a marble statue smile...but, when the one who put your new tyres on has put the wheels back and torqued the nuts says he is finished, he goes off to do the invoicing and take payment...the other one takes the torque wrench and goes over each wheel just to double-check. It's a routine, a ritual...but it works. I use these guys because I recognise that they work well together and that gives me confidence. They might have been well trained, they might have been badly trained but just get on with it, but for sure they don't have any certificates worth knowing about, nothing on display in the workshop except the required credentials for carrying out MOT inspections...so, would you use these guys? No certificates, just workaday experience...
There will always be cowboys! Don't fret needlessly over the "unqualified" electricians...just get together to get government to put legislation in place to ensure that electricians get a voice that is listened to...and that will be the start of a new era where bodgers will be found out and removed. Please, don't be too hard on the DIY brigade, rather be more helpful in guiding them to professional advice...I am DIY, and I know my limitations...I am not a threat to you real electricians, it's the DIY blokes who THINK they are good who are the real threat...those who call themselves electricians and rip people off in a dangerous industry.
18 days?
I think not!

telectrix · Aug 31, 2018

Jeez pirate.That's not a post, it's an essay. You could use it to splice the gangplank.

.

MDJ · Aug 31, 2018

Thor said:
@Murdoch just use the cheapest quote. .

Next Time want to buy a car or a carpet then I will ask the seller to add 50% on to make me feel better lol

pirate said:
Because I used to move in such circles, I know a fair number of "professionals" in many spheres..accountants, dentists, doctors, lawyers...they all had to get university degrees, taking from 3 to 7 years of study.
On graduating, most of them knew very little...all they had achieved was the right to continue their education within their chosen field.
There were no "unqualified" doctors...but I would rather be seen by a GP with 40 years experience than a newbie...
However, there comes a time when you have to accept the transition from "newly qualified" to "competent"...and from "experienced" to "highly experienced"...and you also have to accept that some "newbies" have good stuff to bring to the table by way of using innovation to improve the working day and the outcome for patients/clients/customers, by not being bound by tradition.
A mechanic may fix your brakes...an experienced mechanic may do the same job...the result should be the same, but sometimes it isn't, sadly. What matters is doing the right job, the safe job, the "perfect" job...friends, there will always be different opinions on here about such matters, but frankly there is no one solution...so don't let differing views turn into vitriol...just accept that everyone has an experience to support their cause, and try to be constructive, not dismissive.
Story-time:
I use a local tyre dealer (national brand) for my tyres, MOTs, servicing, etc. I have watched these two guys in one depot many times and I like their style. The old guy, (with a beard that would automatically qualify him for membership of ZZTop) and the "wee boy" who needs his mum to pack his lunch...they spar constantly, with banter that would make a marble statue smile...but, when the one who put your new tyres on has put the wheels back and torqued the nuts says he is finished, he goes off to do the invoicing and take payment...the other one takes the torque wrench and goes over each wheel just to double-check. It's a routine, a ritual...but it works. I use these guys because I recognise that they work well together and that gives me confidence. They might have been well trained, they might have been badly trained but just get on with it, but for sure they don't have any certificates worth knowing about, nothing on display in the workshop except the required credentials for carrying out MOT inspections...so, would you use these guys? No certificates, just workaday experience...
There will always be cowboys! Don't fret needlessly over the "unqualified" electricians...just get together to get government to put legislation in place to ensure that electricians get a voice that is listened to...and that will be the start of a new era where bodgers will be found out and removed. Please, don't be too hard on the DIY brigade, rather be more helpful in guiding them to professional advice...I am DIY, and I know my limitations...I am not a threat to you real electricians, it's the DIY blokes who THINK they are good who are the real threat...those who call themselves electricians and rip people off in a dangerous industry.
18 days?
I think not!

Far too long with no paragraphs to even consider looking at Pirate.

pirate · Aug 31, 2018

Fekn wastin' my time then, MDJ!
Mind you, there were some paragraphs.
Sadly, I see your message was far too short, with no commas, and a horrible split infinitive...
...and I do love the elipsis, which clearly is a device you seldom employ.
If you read what I wrote and didn't like it, I am very happy to hear your criticism. If you can't be bothered to read it-and I accept it was a long post, but for good reason-then don't waste my time telling me so.
Hissy fit over! Lol!

a-z electrics · Sep 1, 2018

Its a bit like a boiler "engineer".. it took me 4 yrs to become an engineer before i had ever looked inside a boiler! You wouldn't get any such tradesman or technician being called Engineer in France or germany.. you would need to have letters after yr name.
You can't blame the punters for wanting to become an electrician, I blame our assessment system.