Will this RCD fit into this board?

HappyHippyDad · Oct 31, 2018

Morning....

I have a chap who wants 30mA protection on all his circuits.

He currently has the main switch as seen in the picture below showing the whole CU

[ElectriciansForums.net] Will this RCD fit into this board?

Will the RCD below fit into this board in the same place?

The one he has is marked WSEM, the one I can buy is WSES. Are these interchangeable?

If they are not then I may try and convince him just to have 30mA protection on the circuit I will be working on. So my next question is, is there an RCBO which will fit this board?

Cheers.

HappyHippyDad · Oct 31, 2018

Having seen another thread I dont think there is an RCBO that fits this board, just an RCCB taking up 2 positions. So it's just the question about whether the WSES and WSEM are interchangeable?

He will not be swayed to fit a new board so that is not an option.

Yozza19 · Oct 31, 2018

Is it a tt system

Pete999 · Oct 31, 2018

happyhippydad said:
Having seen another thread I dont think there is an RCBO that fits this board, just an RCCB taking up 2 positions. So it's just the question about whether the WSES and WSEM are interchangeable?

He will not be swayed to fit a new board so that is not an option.

Well HHD if you can't find a suitable replacement that the Manufacturers agree will be safe to exchange with the one already in situ, and the client won't agree to a CU change you don't have much of an option, do you? time to consider your options for the job. Other than putting in a Main Switch in place of the existing RCD and installing a stand alone RCD to cover the board, in a separate enclosure, I can't see as you can do anything else you can do, with the work involved to use a stand alone RCD +enclosure + tails + Henly blocks would it not be as cheap to swap the board? not done any price comparisons so not sure, worth a coat of looking at though, don't you think?

Gavin John Hyde · Oct 31, 2018

Think you hit nail on the head @happyhippydad if he wont go for a new board then its a case of adding rcd protection to the circuit you are working on, maybe use a rcd spur or sockets etc if needed.

SparkyChick · Oct 31, 2018

Ive recently added a new socket to a 3036 board.

Run a suitably sized cable to an external RCD and extend the circuit cables into the enclosure with the RCD in it.

multimick · Oct 31, 2018

i did that about 5 years ago s.c. for an assesment (napit) the inspector pulled his face but couldn't tell me why it did not comply

Gavin John Hyde · Oct 31, 2018

SparkyChick said:
Ive recently added a new socket to a 3036 board.

Run a suitably sized cable to an external RCD and extend the circuit cables into the enclosure with the RCD in it.

Have done similar, it doesnt add much to the overall cost of the job either, With the 18th coming into effect in the new year then I think we will be doing a lot more of that, especially with light circuits as they are often found without rcd protection. Although I expect some funny customers who will feel we are trying to rob them when dodgy dave down the pub will do it sans rcd for half the price.

HappyHippyDad · Oct 31, 2018

Cheers all, but does anyone know if the WSES fits in the WSEM? Or are you just politely ignoring that part as its a daft question due to lack of discrimination?

I should have perhaps made it more clear that this is specifically what the client has asked for. I could easily add another enclosure by the RCD to give my work 30mA, or I could even just fit a 30mA RCD fused spur by in place of the JB I am pinching the power from, however he wants the 100mA main switch replaced by a 30mA. Will the WSES fit in this board?

telectrix · Oct 31, 2018

firstly, the guy is a divvy for not upgrading the CU. secondly, the question, Hippy, is one best answered by Wylex.

Richard Burns · Oct 31, 2018

I believe that they are the same physical configuration.
I am fairly sure I replaced one sometime ago, however I cannot remember if it was 30mA to 100mA or vice versa or just a straight swap, so not much help there!
There is a model that is not compatible, just not quite able to align the rigid neutral bar, but I would have to search through old spares to be able to compare and contrast.
Just tell the customer you need to take the existing one with you to ensure compatibility!!

Octopus · Oct 31, 2018

multimick said:
i did that about 5 years ago s.c. for an assessment (napit) the inspector pulled his face but couldn't tell me why it did not comply

Did you get a pass?

If he can't tell why it doesn't comply then surely its a pass.

multimick · Oct 31, 2018

yes passed,he looked at the rcd enclosure and asked were the overcurrent protection was,i said it's its the 3036 in the wylex , he pulled his face ha

Octopus · Oct 31, 2018

So changing the 100mA to a 30mA RCD - would it comply with the reg minimising inconvenience?

I say NOT

suffolkspark · Oct 31, 2018

you literally can't just swap it out though, even if it fits it doesn't comply

SparkyChick · Oct 31, 2018

If it was an isolator and not an RCD, I would probably agree that it wouldn't comply. But since it's already an RCD and in the event of a fault it will trip and take out everything, I think there is some argument to say it's not making things worse in fact you could argue it's a safety improvement since the whole installation would have additional protection.

Midwest · Oct 31, 2018

SparkyChick said:
If it was an isolator and not an RCD, I would probably agree that it wouldn't comply. But since it's already an RCD and in the event of a fault it will trip and take out everything, I think there is some argument to say it's not making things worse in fact you could argue it's a safety improvement since the whole installation would have additional protection.

Think thats stretching the spirit of things a bit. That 100mA might sit there all day, not noticing diddley, whereas the 30mA will trip if there's a Y in the day.

SparkyChick · Oct 31, 2018

Midwest said:
Think thats stretching the spirit of things a bit. That 100mA might sit there all day, not noticing diddley, whereas the 30mA will trip if there's a Y in the day.

I did say you could argue it's an improvement... not sure I would

I've got a client with one of those boards and when it came to testing some changes, I couldn't even get 1/2x test to complete. Ramp tested the RCD with nothing on it and it was tripping at around 12mA.

Only tripped when I tested it, despite the installation being somewhat old.

The risks could perhaps be mitigated somewhat with a couple of well placed emergency lights.

Toneyz · Oct 31, 2018

Is this a TT supply this I don't think has been answered which maybe why a 100mA rcd main switch.
What is wrong with it anyway Do you want to change to 30mA for compliance for the works you are carrying out?

HappyHippyDad · Oct 31, 2018

suffolkspark said:
you literally can't just swap it out though, even if it fits it doesn't comply

I can

HappyHippyDad · Oct 31, 2018

anthonybragg said:
Is this a TT supply this I don't think has been answered which maybe why a 100mA rcd main switch.
What is wrong with it anyway Do you want to change to 30mA for compliance for the works you are carrying out?

I'm not sure if its a TT or not. Could you tell me why that makes a difference?
I dont want to change it but that is what the customer is asking for. Ive given him the alternatives but he is adamant thats what he wants.

suffolkspark · Oct 31, 2018

happyhippydad said:
I can

well you can do what you like, but it doesn't comply, by all means bosh a second hand ebay one in there and deny you ever did it if that's the route you want, but you cant cert that you did it

happyhippydad said:
I'm not sure if its a TT or not. Could you tell me why that makes a difference?
I dont want to change it but that is what the customer is asking for. Ive given him the alternatives but he is adamant thats what he wants.

your the electrician... you tell him what he can have? what he "wants" is irrelevent

123 · Oct 31, 2018

happyhippydad said:
I'm not sure if its a TT or not. Could you tell me why that makes a difference?
I dont want to change it but that is what the customer is asking for. Ive given him the alternatives but he is adamant thats what he wants.

Surely if you are going to be carrying out some works you would know what the earthing arrangement is and if the bonding etc is up to scratch?

Also if it is TT and you are adamant your going to do these works, it would be better to do it by adding the 30mA RCD in a separate enclosure beside the consumer unit, and have the 2 RCD's in series so at least if the 30mA RCD goes faulty there is a chance of some fault protection.

HappyHippyDad · Oct 31, 2018

suffolkspark said:
well you can do what you like, but it doesn't comply, by all means bosh a second hand ebay one in there and deny you ever did it if that's the route you want, but you cant cert that you did it

your the electrician... you tell him what he can have? what he "wants" is irrelevent

Thankyou, I will

HappyHippyDad · Oct 31, 2018

SparkyChick said:
I did say you could argue it's an improvement... not sure I would

I've got a client with one of those boards and when it came to testing some changes, I couldn't even get 1/2x test to complete. Ramp tested the RCD with nothing on it and it was tripping at around 12mA.

Only tripped when I tested it, despite the installation being somewhat old.

The risks could perhaps be mitigated somewhat with a couple of well placed emergency lights.

Did you delete my post SC? I was deliberately dangling a carrot though, sorry. I've had a glass of ale and instead of ignoring the silly people on here I tend to push them a little (albeit politely), which is just silly of me (but a bit of fun). My apologies Miss SC

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