DB upgrade advice appreciated

Phill · Mar 22, 2019

View attachment 48444 View attachment 48445 View attachment 48444 View attachment 48445 View attachment 48446 View attachment 48447 Ok, I’m a relatively new domestic installer and would value the opinions from you more experienced guys.

Went to look at a job which was outside lighting, gate lights, drive lights, security etc and changing some fluorescents for down lighters in an outbuilding... straightforward. When I went to check the DB to see what I would be working with I came across this arrangement... the client is very keen to get it all upgraded and looking at what he’s got DB1 (top board) feeds DB2 (no RCDS) both boards then feed an outbuilding each with sockets, lighting and EV charger off one... no bonding to gas, water etc and on and on we go , I’m not surprised he wants / needs it sorting.

So, I’m thinking split the incoming tails in a Henley and replace DB1 and 2 with 2 x new 12 way split boards (couple of spare ways in each for future use) and each one of those then feeds a sub board in the outbuildings. Remove the fuses for other two phases not used.

OR, as he’s got 3 phase coming in use 1 phase for one new DB and another phase for another DB,?

I’m more comfortable with option one but open to suggestions. I’m going back on Saturday afternoon to have a more thorough investigation but that’s my thoughts so far...

Sorry, if I don’t respond quickly but got to take my dear old mum out for lunch as she’s 90 today!

Wilko · Mar 22, 2019

Another fine installation

Starting thought is to be wary of IR faults and do plenty of testing prior to replacing anything. I'm not MIC expert, but this may be a problem (?).

littlespark · Mar 22, 2019

Wilko said:
I'm not MIC expert, but this may be a problem (?).

Is that MICC, or a couple of microbore heating pipes?

OP:- Happy birthday to your mum. Not too much gin, ok

Are you sure that's a domestic installation?
Could take more than a week to sort all that out. I would try to share load over all 3 phases, assuming there's no underlying problems with the installation itself. (borrowed neutrals for example)
What does the timeclock control? off peak heating?

Good luck.

davesparks · Mar 22, 2019

How is the installation distributed across the phases at the moment?

You ideally need to achieve some kind of balance across the phases as far as practicable.

MJPD29 · Mar 22, 2019

Is this all for 1 house??

Top Cat · Mar 22, 2019

Not sure I understand you when you say about only using 1 phase. I see two 3 phase boards in the photo's, what are they feeding?
The time clock looks to be a DNO off-peak time clock, do they have storage heaters. I see what looks like a contactor so again, storage heaters? Also not sure about you removing the DNO fuses!
As you say you are a relatively new domestic installer I wonder if you knew an experienced spark to have a look with you? This set up is nearer to commercial than domestic so you could get in over your head if you're not careful.

Dustydazzler · Mar 22, 2019

This is not a bog standard cut and shut board change

Some serious testing will be required to see what exactly does what

Not a job for a novice

Phill · Mar 22, 2019

Yes, one house and domestic.

The 3 phase is not needed or in use but it is live up to the isolator switch. That’s why I thought get rid of it all after the DNO removes the fuses then I’m just dealing with one dogs dinner of a single phase installation...

I agree some serious testing is needed.

I think I will go back with a more experienced sparks and see what they think, maybe hand it off to them or hopefully work with them, nice learning curve!

That’s why I posted as I don’t want to get in over my head.

Dustydazzler · Mar 22, 2019

If you can make the 3 phase redundant (is this possible are there any 3 phase devices anywhere) then dealing with the rats nest becomes much easier to deal with.
2 things first ...
1 - get the dno to give you a cost on a new single phase supply and brand new isolation point
2 - do a thorough eicr on the whole installation, don’t cut corners on the eicr testing as it will only bite you in the arse when you start putting everything on an rcd.

This is the sort of job I love if you have the budget and time to rip the whole lot out and make a really nice job of it

Phill · Mar 22, 2019

No 3 phase devices

Good shout on DNO single phase / isolation point

Phill · Mar 22, 2019

littlespark said:
Is that MICC, or a couple of microbore heating pipes?

OP:- Happy birthday to your mum. Not too much gin, ok

Are you sure that's a domestic installation?
Could take more than a week to sort all that out. I would try to share load over all 3 phases, assuming there's no underlying problems with the installation itself. (borrowed neutrals for example)
What does the timeclock control? off peak heating?

Good luck.

Microbore

Bellendian · Mar 22, 2019

It's possible the 3 phase supply was required for max demand, rather than needing 3 phases for 3 phase kit. If it's a big house with all electric space heating that might have been the reason. It's unusual to find a 3 phase head in domestic unless it needs to be there for extra kW. Worth checking max demand before getting supply changed....

Top Cat · Mar 22, 2019

Phill said:
No 3 phase devices

Good shout on DNO single phase / isolation point

?????????? Why not a three-phase isolation point?

westward10 · Mar 22, 2019

Ditching the three phase supply for a single phase option seems crazy to me. It needs a thorough inspection and test to ascertain what and what isn't still required you can then rationalise it all into one TP&N board with a single phase off peak unit if required.

westward10 · Mar 22, 2019

I suspect the Federal triple pole board is the off peak judging from some of the circuit ID and the separate Federal mcb below the contactor enclosure which appears to be in the off position.